Ideal Gas Law: Pressure, Volume, & Temperature Changes

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of the ideal gas law, specifically focusing on how changes in pressure and volume affect temperature over time. Participants explore the mathematical relationships and derivatives involved in this context, addressing both theoretical and practical aspects of the problem.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states the ideal gas law and provides specific values for pressure, volume, and their rates of change, seeking to find the rate of change of temperature.
  • Another participant suggests expressing temperature as a function of pressure and volume, and then differentiating to find the rate of change of temperature.
  • A participant attempts to apply the differentiation process but expresses difficulty in proceeding without a calculator.
  • Another participant proposes a reformulation of the temperature equation to demonstrate dimensional consistency and suggests differentiating this new expression with respect to time.
  • There is a query about the correctness of a derived expression for the rate of change of temperature, with a follow-up emphasizing the need to apply the product rule in differentiation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the final approach to solving the problem, with some expressing confusion about the differentiation process and others suggesting different methods. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the correct application of differentiation techniques.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the mathematical steps involved, particularly in the differentiation process, and there are limitations noted regarding the use of calculators, which may affect the ability to compute final answers.

ayahouyee
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The ideal gas law states that PV = nRT where P is the pressure in atmospheres, V
is the volume in litres, n is the number of moles, R = 8.314 Latm/Kmol is the gas
constant, and T is the temperature in Kelvins. Suppose that at a specific instance that
two moles of gas is under 5 atmospheres of pressure where the pressure is decreasing at
0.3 atm/min. Also at this moment the volume is 15 L and is increasing at 0.6 L/min.
What is the rate of change of the temperature with respect to time?

Thanks in advance!
 
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Look, you need to make an attempt at the solution or at least explain your difficulty.

Express T through P(t) and V(t). Then find the derivative dT/dt of T w.r.t. time treating P and V as functions of t.
 
Okay, so first i have to differentiate both sides with respect to time:

P(dV/dt) + V(dP/dt) = R(n(dT/dt) + T(dn/dt))

We're told that dP/dt = -0.3 atm/min, n = 2, P = 5 atm, V = 15 L, dV/dt = 0.6 L/min:

Plugging all this in:

(5 atm)(0.6 L/min) + (15 L)(-0.3 atm/min) = (8.314 L*atm/K*mol)*(2)(dT/dt)

This is where i get stuck! we are not allowed to use calculators so i don't know how i am supposed to find my final answer :(
 
I would do as suggested by Evgeny.Makarov and write:

$$T=\frac{1}{nR}PV$$

Now, the constant:

$$\frac{1}{nR}$$

will have units of:

$$\frac{1}{\text{mol}\cdot\frac{\text{J}}{\text{mol K}}}=\frac{\text{K}}{\text{J}}=\frac{\text{temperature}}{\text{energy}}$$

The two factors:

$$PV$$

will have units of:

$$\frac{\text{force}}{\text{length}^2}\cdot\text{length}^3=\text{force}\cdot\text{length}=\text{work}=\text{energy}$$

Thus, the equation is dimensionally consistent. The constant factor is:

$$\frac{1}{2\cdot8.314}=\frac{1}{16.628}=\frac{1000}{16628}=\frac{250}{4157}$$

So, we may now write:

$$T=\frac{250}{4157}PV$$

Now try differentiating with respect to time $t$.
 
DT/dt = 250/4157P(DP/dt) + 250/4157(DV/dt)

is that right?
 
ayahouyee said:
DT/dt = 250/4157P(DP/dt) + 250/4157(DV/dt)

is that right?

No, you want to apply the product rule on the right side. Recall:

$$\frac{d}{dx}\left(f(x)g(x) \right)=f(x)\frac{d}{dx}\left(g(x) \right)+\frac{d}{dx}\left(f(x) \right)g(x)$$
 

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