Impedance of a terminal of a simple NMOS circuit

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the impedance (Zin) of a terminal in a simple NMOS circuit, focusing on the application of small-signal analysis and the relationships between voltages and currents in the circuit.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant attempts to calculate Zin using a test DC voltage and derives a formula involving transconductance (gm) and resistor values, concluding with a tentative value of 101.01 k Ohm.
  • Another participant challenges the assumption that the drain voltage is approximately zero, suggesting that the correct relationship needs to be established and emphasizing the importance of unit consistency in calculations.
  • A participant asserts that the voltage at the drain should be the same as at the gate, questioning the small-signal model's implications and suggesting an alternative approach using Blackman's formula, although they express uncertainty about its application.
  • Another participant clarifies the small-signal analysis process, stating that the small input current must equal the increase in drain current and provides guidance on how to derive vgs and Zin, while reiterating the importance of unit adherence.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the assumptions regarding drain voltage and the relationships in the circuit. There is no consensus on the correct approach or final value for Zin, and multiple competing perspectives remain in the discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for careful attention to units and the conditions under which their calculations hold true, particularly regarding small-signal deviations from DC bias conditions. There are unresolved aspects related to the application of different formulas and assumptions about voltage levels in the circuit.

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Homework Statement


Calculate the impedance Zin[/B]

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Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


[/B]
WZNkok4.jpg

I cut VDD and the DC current source at the top.

Put in test DC voltage

VTest - 10* ITest = VGS (because voltage "after" the resistor = the voltage at the gate and the drain, and source is to ground.

times gm to find current trough NMOS:

gm [VTest - 10* ITest ]= gm VGS

This equals VTest / 10 (current through resistor would be the same as current through NMOS

rearranging

VTest / I Test = 10*gm / (gm - 1/10) = Zin

Zin = 101.01 k Ohm ?This is probably wrong.
 
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This equals VTest / 10 (current through resistor
This could be true only if the drain voltage was approximately zero, and you haven't demonstrated that it is. So you need to determine the right relationship.

Remember, ##\mathtt {\frac 1 g_m}## has units of Ohms.

Your method of approach is along the right lines, nonetheless. Caution: you are going to be tripped up sooner or later if you continue to write 10k as 10 in formulae.
 
Last edited:
NascentOxygen said:
This could be true only if the drain voltage was approximately zero, and you haven't demonstrated that it is. So you need to determine the right relationship.

Remember, ##\mathtt {\frac 1 g_m}## has units of Ohms.

Your method of approach is along the right lines, nonetheless. Caution: you are going to be tripped up sooner or later if you continue to write 10k as 10 in formulae.
Hi, according to my calculations the voltage at the drain should be the same as the gate right, they share the same node.

But in the small signal model, its a current source so current following through resistor and the MOS should be the same not?

And yes, I'm aware of the problem with the possibility that writing 10k as 10 can go wrong. I will check on that in the future.Also, another approach could be given by Blackmans formula, but I don't know how to do that. U could choose between blackman (don't know anything about it) or the Vtest / Itest.
 
You are doing small-signal analysis.
So a small input current i = (vin - vgs)/R.
That small current must equal the increase in drain current (why?).
And small-signal-wise, you are given gm = 10 mA/V. What is the definition of gm?
So you can solve for vgs and then Zin = vin/i.
The answer is a number not much greater than the resistor (10K).

Note that all parameters are small-signal deviations from the dc bias condition.

You do need to pay attention to units as previously advised. I suggest sticking to SI.
 

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