Engineering Calculate impedance of a feedback circuit with Blackman's technique

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The discussion revolves around calculating the impedance of a feedback circuit using Blackman's theorem and the Vtest/Itest method. Participants analyze the circuit by applying test voltages and adjusting bias conditions, with some concluding that insufficient data is provided to compute the input impedance accurately. There is debate over the assumptions regarding the MOSFETs' operation and the nature of the amplifier, with suggestions that the circuit's feedback may not function as intended under certain conditions. Corrections to the application of Blackman's theorem are discussed, particularly regarding the treatment of gain and the need for absolute values in calculations. Overall, the consensus is that more clarity on the circuit parameters and configurations is necessary for a definitive analysis.
  • #31
I must admit that - up to now - I didn`t need Blackman`s theorem. So, I took this opportunity to become familiar with it.
If somebody is still interested to see how it woks for the present task, here is the solution:

The impedance Z between two points of a feedback system is:
Z=ZD(1+Tsc)/(1+Toc)
with ZD=Impedance between both points without feedback , and
Tsc=Loop gain magnitude with a short across the selcted points; Toc=Loop gain magnitude with an open circuit across both points.

For the present case: We need the resistance between the pos. opamp input (point 1) and ground (point 2).

Therefore: ZD=R and
Tsc=0 because A=0 (both opamp input terminals at ground potential) and |Toc|=A*0.1*gm*R.

This gives

Z=R*(1+0)/(1+A*0.1*gm*R)=R/(1+A*0.1*gm*R)
(confirmed by symbolic analyzer, see my previous post)
 
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  • #32
LvW said:
I must admit that - up to now - I didn`t need Blackman`s theorem. So, I took this opportunity to become familiar with it.
If somebody is still interested to see how it woks for the present task, here is the solution:

The impedance Z between two points of a feedback system is:
Z=ZD(1+Tsc)/(1+Toc)
with ZD=Impedance between both points without feedback , and
Tsc=Loop gain magnitude with a short across the selcted points; Toc=Loop gain magnitude with an open circuit across both points.

For the present case: We need the resistance between the pos. opamp input (point 1) and ground (point 2).

Therefore: ZD=R and
Tsc=0 because A=0 (both opamp input terminals at ground potential) and |Toc|=A*0.1*gm*R.

This gives

Z=R*(1+0)/(1+A*0.1*gm*R)=R/(1+A*0.1*gm*R)
(confirmed by symbolic analyzer, see my previous post)
Thanks for your research! Only thing I would point out is that gm is a strong function of Vgs = 0.1AV where V is the quiescent + amp input voltage ("point 1"). So the operating point of the circuit still has to be solved for, then gm = 2k(0.1AV - VT) can be determined. Of course, you'd need k also.
 
  • #33
Yes, of course. My calculation (blindly) assumes an operating point in the linear FET region.
 
  • #34
LvW said:
Yes, of course. My calculation (blindly) assumes an operating point in the linear FET region.
OK. Now you'd be subject to Vds modulation but I'd say enough of this, thanks for enlightening us all on the (in?)famous Blackman method! :woot:
r m
 
  • #35
Waxterzz, are you going to try get a result with the Vtest/Itest method?
 
  • #36
This has been a fine, collaborative effort. Well done, all contributors!
thumbsup.gif
 
  • #37
Yes - and caused by an interesting question from the OP (forcing us - includiung me - to remember and apply Blackmans rule).
 
  • #38
LvW said:
Yes - and caused by an interesting question from the OP (forcing us - includiung me - to remember and apply Blackmans rule).
@ LvW - just as a final note - the fact that the upper FET can operate as a cascode connection (by suitably setting its gate bias) you can indeed operate the lower FET in the linear mode while keeping Vds essentially constant - meaning your assumption of operating in the linear mode while keeping gm constant, is fully validated.
Over and out!
rm
 
  • #39
rude man - thank you for this final remark.
 

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