Implications of mass energy not being conserved for ##\beta^+## decay

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the implications of mass-energy conservation in the context of beta plus (##\beta^{+}##) decay, where a proton decays into a neutron, a positron, and an electron neutrino. Participants explore the apparent contradiction between the conservation of mass-energy and the observed occurrence of this decay process.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants question the notion of mass conservation in decay processes, with some suggesting that energy conservation, which includes both mass and kinetic energy, is the relevant principle. There is an exploration of the assumptions made regarding kinetic energy and momentum in the context of the decay.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants clarifying their understanding of energy conservation in beta plus decay. Some guidance has been provided regarding the distinction between mass conservation and energy conservation, indicating a productive direction in the conversation.

Contextual Notes

There is an ongoing examination of the assumptions related to kinetic energy and momentum in the decay process, as well as the implications of these assumptions on the conservation laws applicable to beta plus decay.

JD_PM
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Homework Statement
Beta + decay
Relevant Equations
Beta + decay
##\beta^{+}## decay (a proton decays to a neutron + positron + electron neutrino) is a decay in which mass energy is not conserved.

I've been taught that if that ought to be the case for a decay/reaction, it would be forbidden (please see solution manual below):

Captura de pantalla (776).png


But ##\beta^{+}## decay is observed to happen.

What am I missing here?
 
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JD_PM said:
Homework Statement: Beta + decay
Homework Equations: Beta + decay

What am I missing here?
Kinetic energy.
 
Orodruin said:
Kinetic energy.

To get the maximum kinetic energy for the positron (for instance) we have to assume that the neutron has no kinetic energy so that momentum is conserved like:

$$p_{ntr} = p_e$$

Where ntr means neutrino.

Was your comment pointing at this assumption?
 
JD_PM said:
To get the maximum kinetic energy for the positron (for instance) we have to assume that the neutron has no kinetic energy so that momentum is conserved like:

$$p_{ntr} = p_e$$

Where ntr means neutrino.

Was your comment pointing at this assumption?
No. There is no such thing as ”mass conservation” in the sense of needing the sum of the masses of individual particles to be the same before and after. The appropriate conservation law is energy and this has contributions from both the masses and the kinetic energies of the particles. So when you are just comparing the sums of the individual masses, you are missing kinetic energy.
 
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OK I see it now thanks. Then this reaction is not forbidden, because energy (mass+ kinetic energies) is conserved for Beta + decay, right?
 
Yes
 

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