Importance of communication skills to an engineer?

[rafehi]

I'm a second year engineering student and as part of my course, am required to do one subject per semester not related to engineering/science/mathematics. First semester I did International Politics and I'm enrolled for another politics subject sem 2, but I've been thinking about changing that to Organisational Behaviour. I won't lie - my communication skills aren't my strongest point but 3 or 4 years down the line, would I benefit much from having gone the OB route?

I'm not exactly sure what Organisational Behaviour entails but it's really my only option in semester 2. The subject overview is:
This subject will provide an introduction to basic individual and group processes, as they affect people in organisations. Major theories and models in key areas of organisational behaviour will be examined; including group dynamics, motivation, stress, communication, conflict, power, strategy, structure and change management. Tutorials will emphasise the application of theories, through the use of exercises and case studies.

Again, would this subject be relevant and worthwhile for a prospective engineer?

 

[negitron]

Might help you in terms of pursuing an engineering management position, such as a project manager. But, I can't see it as very helpful to an entry-level engineering position. Nevertheless, you'll certainly want to look into ways to improve your communication skills since good, clear communication is very import to general success in any professional environment, including (and perhaps even especially) engineering.

 

[Dr Transport]

Might help you in terms of pursuing an engineering management position, such as a project manager. But, I can't see it as very helpful to an entry-level engineering position. ...

I would disagree with this. I work in industry in an engineering/scientist position and communication skills are necessary for ALL levels of experience. I routinely work with entry level people who can't communicate very well and this impedes their career development. If you can't get your point across, no matter how competent you are, you'll not be perceived positively in your profession.

 

[negitron]

Yes, I said that. Read the course description provided by the OP; that is what I was telling him might not be entirely useful, not communication as a whole.

 

[turbo]

Is there a debating team, or a course in debating? If there is one problem that rookie engineers exhibit consistently (in my experience) it is the failure to communicate effectively with non-engineers who may control their fate in the company, or who have some vested interests in the projects that the engineers are working on, and debating can help improve that. To debate effectively, you need to deconstruct a situation or hypothetical, understand your audience (including comprehension levels), identify points at which you can exert some leverage to sway the audience, and make your case in terms that they understand. Those are all really useful skills in the workplace.

 

[j93]

I would disagree with this. I work in industry in an engineering/scientist position and communication skills are necessary for ALL levels of experience. I routinely work with entry level people who can't communicate very well and this impedes their career development. If you can't get your point across, no matter how competent you are, you'll not be perceived positively in your profession.

Youre argument goes against your belief because
if this was really true

communication skills are necessary for ALL levels of experience..

then this would not be true

I routinely work with entry level people who can't communicate very well .

because of the definition of necessary unless the company has a habit of hiring employees who do not meet the necessary requirements.

 

[turbo]

Youre argument goes against your belief because
if this was really true

then this would not be true

because of the definition of necessary unless the company has a habit of hiring employees who do not meet the necessary requirements.

Have you ever worked in industry? Companies hire people who have basic requisite training relevant to their field and then groom them to fit in and contribute. One very basic problem in evaluating candidates for highly technical jobs is the failure of the applicants to take courses that improve (and demonstrate) their proficiency in writing, oral communication, and debate (see previous post). A sharp-minded engineer with lots of great ideas can be hobbled badly by an inability to express their ideas to managers and bean-counters.

 

[j93]

Have you ever worked in industry? Companies hire people who have basic requisite training relevant to their field and then groom them to fit in and contribute.

This still doesn't disprove the point that companies don't seem to value communication skills otherwise they would have a greater emphasis in hiring based on communication skills but companies hire based on engineering skills without any regard to communication skills therefore the answer to the initial question must be that NO communication skills are not important , they may be beneficial but so would a CS degree to a Mech/Elect Engr. and any engineer doing even basic programming, or a design degree for all engineers doing even the most basic design, or for that matter it would not hurt if all engineers would also have a physics degree as well. The qualities an employee working for a company wants in his coworkers are very likely not to be the qualities an employer/HR may value in new hires.

 

[symbolipoint]

In reality, you will find people who exercise poor communication skills, including managers and leads. Following their poor example is still not a good idea.

Good communication ability can take time to develop. Practice in speaking and writing is good because, without making the explanation so long, clear understandable communication is important. Courses help; day-to-day practice including refinements of what and how you express helps. Studying language and languages (both your native one and nonnative ones) helps. Overall, you (actually almost everybody) needs to communicate by compositions of sentences and paragraphs, draw and show labels, and demonstrate with naration and description and explanation.

 

[Dr Transport]

Youre argument goes against your belief because
if this was really true

then this would not be true

because of the definition of necessary unless the company has a habit of hiring employees who do not meet the necessary requirements.

One point of clarification, in most engineering schools in the US there isn't a requirement to take any communication/composition classes after the freshman year. The ability to communicate effectively is pushed off until the person is either looking for a job or if they find employment they are taught by their company the most effective and productive ways to communicate in their specific industry.

Companies routinely hire people who can't communicate very well because the ones who have advanced competency are far and few between.

 

[j93]

Companies routinely hire people who can't communicate very well because the ones who have advanced competency are far and few between.

This can't be completely true due to the amount of foreign engineers employed by engineering with H-1B (http://www.myvisajobs.com/Top_Visa_Sponsors.aspx) because I doubt these employees have the same mastery of the working language as domestic applicants.

 

[D H]

This still doesn't disprove the point that companies don't seem to value communication skills otherwise they would have a greater emphasis in hiring based on communication skills but companies hire based on engineering skills without any regard to communication skills therefore the answer to the initial question must be that NO communication skills are not important , they may be beneficial but so would a CS degree to a Mech/Elect Engr. and any engineer doing even basic programming, or a design degree for all engineers doing even the most basic design, or for that matter it would not hurt if all engineers would also have a physics degree as well. The qualities an employee working for a company wants in his coworkers are very likely not to be the qualities an employer/HR may value in new hires.

Is this how you justify to yourself that you do not need to improve your communications skills? Poor communications skills can keep one from being hired in the first place. At my workplace, a poorly written resume or cover letter will sink a candidate. The same goes for exhibiting poor communications skills during the interview. We make freshout candidates give a technical presentation on a topic of their choosing. One purpose is to ferret out those with poor communications skills.

This can't be completely true due to the amount of foreign engineers employed by engineering with H-1B (http://www.myvisajobs.com/Top_Visa_Sponsors.aspx) because I doubt these employees have the same mastery of the working language as domestic applicants.

You may have a point there. 4N studnts Rnt vry gud @ txtN.

 

[Topher925]

In my opinion, communication skills is a very underrated topic when it comes to engineering. Writing and oral communication are skills that really need to be mastered if you plan on getting anywhere in your career.

However, I don't think these skills can be taught very well in any gen-ed course. My school required me to take two writing courses and one communication based course and neither of them helped my communication skills. What really did it for me was just diving right in and working in industry. Working with and communicating with engineers on a technical level really sharpens your skills especially when you are asked to do presentations or teach things to other people. So does writing 200+ technical reports. While debate and organization behavior courses do help, I don't think there is any substitute for the real thing.

 

[j93]

Is this how you justify to yourself that you do not need to improve your communications skills?

Im not trying to justify anything for myself I feel confident enough in my communication skills but I am not going to give people advice based on my idealizations of life but I will give people advice based on reality and reality is that HR doesn't seem to value communication skills.

Poor communications skills can keep one from being hired in the first place. At my workplace, a poorly written resume or cover letter will sink a candidate.

Anyone could go through the trouble of having someone proofread or rewrite a resume and cover letter so a resume doesn't sink a candidate but rather the carelessness of not having another person read it.

The same goes for exhibiting poor communications skills during the interview. We make freshout candidates give a technical presentation on a topic of their choosing. One purpose is to ferret out those with poor communications skills

Your workplace is not the norm since so many large employers use the STAR method. The star method can be prepared for and doesn't focus at all on communication skills other than perhaps the being able to speak english. I suppose in reality many employers hire based
on a)technical proficiency b) interviewing skills(How well can you fit your experiences to STAR).

 

[turbo]

If you consider "success" to be hired for a base-level engineering job, you can be "successful" pretty easily. If you want to be successful in your field and in your chosen industry and employment, you had better be able to communicate effectively. When an engineer has to pitch a project, and can speak only in terms of thermal efficiencies, mechanical efficiencies, etc, (s)he is doomed to mediocrity. When you talk to the production managers and superintendents, you had better be able to speak in terms that will address the overall efficiencies in the parts of the plant that they are responsible for. If you have to pitch the project to upper management, you should be prepared to explain how the project will impact the profitability and competitiveness of the plant and the corporation. If you try to talk to upper managers and bean-counters (who often hold the purse-strings) using engineering jargon, you will baffle them, and may go nowhere in the company. Cold, hard facts.

 

[D H]

Im not trying to justify anything for myself I feel confident enough in my communication skills but I am not going to give people advice based on my idealizations of life but I will give people advice based on reality and reality is that HR doesn't seem to value communication skills.

The reality is that while HR departments act as filters to weed out the obvious mismatches, they typically do not perform the final interview for technical placements, even in large companies.

 

[j93]

The reality is that while HR departments act as filters to weed out the obvious mismatches, they typically do not perform the final interview for technical placements, even in large companies.

The H1-B numbers still show that communication skills are not important unless you honestly believe the average foreign candidates english communication skills are =< to that of the average domestic candidates english skills.

 

[D H]

Based on my experience, the English communication skills of a typical foreign candidate vastly exceed those of the average young American, particularly when the two graduated in some technical arena.

 

[turbo]

If you are an engineering student, please disregard all of j93's ill-advised "advice". You want to excel at your profession, and to do so you will have to communicate with people in your company that control the purse-strings. There are times when you will have to present your ideas in terms of incremental gains in productivity (production managers, etc), and there are times when you will have to present your ideas in terms of bottom-line gains or even in terms of global industry-competiveness(top managers and corporate big-wigs). Can you do any of this if you cannot express yourself in terms that your audience cannot comprehend?

 

[TMFKAN64]

I think that the basic problem is that many of the posters here are right to some degree.

Firstly, it is absolutely crucial to be able to express yourself in clear, coherent, English sentences. A little punctuation and capitalization never hurts either.

Secondly, a shocking number of working engineers seem to be functional illiterates. I include the people who seem to think writing email w/txt@work is gud 2 do. Especially those who insist on doing this into their mid-30's...

 

[j93]

Based on my experience, the English communication skills of a typical foreign candidate vastly exceed those of the average young American, particularly when the two graduated in some technical arena.

I can't possibly argue an experience based argument for all I know your co-workers are the top percentile english communicator for their country however in my experience particularly with software engineering not true especially not with the qualifier vastly.

 

[j93]

If you are an engineering student, please disregard all of j93's ill-advised "advice". You want to excel at your profession, and to do so you will have to communicate with people in your company that control the purse-strings. There are times when you will have to present your ideas in terms of incremental gains in productivity (production managers, etc), and there are times when you will have to present your ideas in terms of bottom-line gains or even in terms of global industry-competiveness (top managers and corporate big-wigs). Can you do any of this if you cannot express yourself in terms that your audience cannot comprehend?

Nobody is going to say communication skills are not useful in general (youre advice is pretty generic and not specific to engineering) but the phrasing of the OP questions by making it specific to engineering means it has to be relative to other fields and if I was to rank the value of communication skills for positions engineering positions would be near the bottom or the lower end. If obtaining generic advice is the goal I would recommend daily reading, brushing ones teeth 3 times a day, and flossing after meals.

 

[TMFKAN64]

But going back to the OP's question (which seemed to have very little to do with the importance of communication skills, despite the title), if you are interested in management, the Organizational Behavior course could be useful. If you aren't interested in management, just take whatever interests you the most.

And definitely floss after meals.

 

[creepypasta13]

how do you improve your communication skills if you're done with undergrad? the only people you can improve your conversational skills with are your coworkers, right? what if they don't really like you and want to talk to you?

 

[turbo]

how do you improve your communication skills if you're done with undergrad? the only people you can improve your conversational skills with are your coworkers, right? what if they don't really like you and want to talk to you?

That can be problematic, especially if the people you NEED to know cannot effectively communicate with you on your terms, and you haven't learned how to communicate with them on theirs.

My favorite mentor in college was a professor emeritus of English. I entered the college of engineering in an honors program, and he was determined to provide "balance" to that program in the form of enhanced communications skills, and he crafted his programs to achieve that. If you enter the work-force with a poor understanding of the functions and viewpoints of the other people in your company, and/or cannot communicate effectively with them, you will be a "tool" - a one-dimensional entity with little influence in your company, and with limited upward mobility. Not good.

 

[creepypasta13]

If you enter the work-force with a poor understanding of the functions and viewpoints of the other people in your company, and/or cannot communicate effectively with them, you will be a "tool" - a one-dimensional entity with little influence in your company, and with limited upward mobility. Not good.

uh oh, from the looks of things, i'll be a 'tool' then

 

[FredGarvin]

Nobody is going to say communication skills are not useful in general (youre advice is pretty generic and not specific to engineering) but the phrasing of the OP questions by making it specific to engineering means it has to be relative to other fields and if I was to rank the value of communication skills for positions engineering positions would be near the bottom or the lower end. If obtaining generic advice is the goal I would recommend daily reading, brushing ones teeth 3 times a day, and flossing after meals.

Just because it is "generic" does not mean it is not applicable to engineering any less.

Please share your insight into the workings of engineering firms that supports your opinion of a low ranking. I can, conservatively, say that in my experience, I have been in working teams with engineers from, oh... a couple of hundred different companies. In my experience communication is almost as critical as the technical skills.

The fact that new engineers are hired with poor technical communication skills is not a contradiction to this requirement. What it is is one thing a company realizes they will have to invest time to teach if the applicant is strong in other areas. The communication skills then become a condition of continued employment. Just because someone gets in the door doesn't mean they'll stay if they don't improve.

In answering the OP, IMO the OB class would be a step in the right direction over the politics classes. An engineer will at least be part of many of those group dynamics you listed.

 

[j93]

Just because it is "generic" does not mean it is not applicable to engineering any less.

I might be confused but I am pretty sure that by definition of the word generic it means that it applies to any situation in which case any includes engineering and as I previously stated if I was to rank jobs based on the importance of communication skills engineering would not come out on top.

The fact that new engineers are hired with poor technical communication skills is not a contradiction to this requirement. What it is is one thing a company realizes they will have to invest time to teach if the applicant is strong in other areas.

If it is something that is crucial to basic performance in the eyes of the company then you wouldn't hire based on the idea that the hole will be filled later, you don't hire a person as a programmer that has never programmed and think that youll fill that hole later because basic programming skills are a crucial requirement for that job.

 

[D H]

I previously stated if I was to rank jobs based on the importance of communication skills engineering would not come out on top.

This still doesn't disprove the point that companies don't seem to value communication skills otherwise they would have a greater emphasis in hiring based on communication skills but companies hire based on engineering skills without any regard to communication skills therefore the answer to the initial question must be that NO communication skills are not important , they may be beneficial but so would a CS degree to a Mech/Elect Engr. and any engineer doing even basic programming, or a design degree for all engineers doing even the most basic design, or for that matter it would not hurt if all engineers would also have a physics degree as well.

You previously stated that employers don't value communications skills at all. You are moving the goalposts.

If it is something that is crucial to basic performance in the eyes of the company then you wouldn't hire based on the idea that the hole will be filled later, you don't hire a person as a programmer that has never programmed and think that youll fill that hole later because basic programming skills are a crucial requirement for that job.

Now you are creating a false dilemma and a straw man. Good job!

Nobody here has said that communication skills are more important than technical skills in the arena of technical employment. What we have said is that communication skills are very important. Those of us who hire people look for candidates with excellent technical, communication, and organizational skills. Unfortunately, there are not very many of those people out there. We have to settle for what the education system hands us.

My experience: Large companies are more likely to settle for what's available than are small companies. Large companies have a wider variety of jobs available to place candidates and they have production quotas that demand hiring a steady stream of new employees. There are plenty of low-level tasks in large companies where someone with good technical skills but lousy communications and organization skills can still be of value. There is little opportunity for advancement in such a job. Is that the kind of job in which you want to find yourself?

Large companies have a special place for people with excellent skills overall: The fast track. A candidate with mediocre technical skills but top-notch communications and organizational skills might well be put on the fast track along with those who are excellent overall. A candidate with excellent technical skills but mediocre communications and organizational skills most likely will not be fast tracked. In that sense, large companies value communication and organizational skills more than technical skills. Good management material is hard to find.

Small companies cannot afford to hire mismatches. Some small companies strive for mediocrity. Large companies outsource non-essential work to small companies such as these. These are the companies that give small business a bad name. Lousy pay, even lousier benefits, high turnover, boring work. A candidate with mediocre skills is not a mismatch at such a company. There is little opportunity for advancement in such a job. Once again, is that the kind of job in which you want to find yourself?

Other small companies strive for excellence. Large companies outsource their toughest problems to small companies such as these. The skills needed to perform these challenging and very essential tasks would break many large companies' pay scales. Small companies in this category would prefer to turn work away over hiring people that don't fit their demands. These companies almost exclusively hire the kinds of people who would be fully qualified to go on a large company's fast track. Communication and organizational skills are on a par with technical skills in these small businesses.

 

[rafehi]

Thanks for the replies, even if I didn't think the thread would pan out quite like it did...

Regarding communication with corporate bigwigs, how much of it is verbal and how much is written? I've never had any issue communicating through writing, technically or otherwise but when put on the spot verbally I tend to struggle.

I'd imagine a lot of the detail would be conveyed through writing though the initial pitch would be in person?

 

[turbo]

Regarding communication with corporate bigwigs, how much of it is verbal and how much is written? I've never had any issue communicating through writing, technically or otherwise but when put on the spot verbally I tend to struggle.

I'd imagine a lot of the detail would be conveyed through writing though the initial pitch would be in person?

The trick is for you to understand the interests of the top brass, and present your project in those terms. If you have a project in mind that will improve thermal efficiency in a mill and save approximately x% of the mill's energy costs, you can put the technical details in a hand-out, so the brass can review those later - though some of them may have come up through the engineering ranks, and may want to discuss details, too. The most important part to a mill superintendent, production manager, VP, CEO, CFO is the projected cost of the project, the amount of down-time that might be needed for the project to be implemented, if any, the pay-back time, and the ongoing savings, so you need to be prepared to turn your efficiency numbers into dollars and time. If you can do this, you'll be speaking in terms that they want to hear. If I was a CFO and knew nothing of engineering, you would still have my whole-hearted support if you could make the case that your modest $50K project would save the mill $200K/year ongoing in energy costs with an initial pay-back time of 3 months. Slam dunk!

If you are pitching your project to your boss (head of engineering dept) you can be as specific as you need, and (s)he will understand that the efficiencies will translate into savings for the company. You should have those (dollars and days) numbers ready just the same, because it shows that you have understood the need to justify the project financially, and have already quantified the savings. Some engineers get so wrapped up in the technical details of a project that they neglect to translate the projected efficiencies into terms that will resonate with the folks in the front office. As DH mentioned, those engineers do not get fast-tracked.

 

[j93]

You previously stated that employers don't value communications skills at all. You are moving the goalposts.

I read over my previous posts and can't figure out where stated that so I am not sure how I am the one that is moving goalposts.

 

[turbo]

I read over my previous posts and can't figure out where stated that so I am not sure how I am the one that is moving goalposts.

Really?

This still doesn't disprove the point that companies don't seem to value communication skills otherwise they would have a greater emphasis in hiring based on communication skills but companies hire based on engineering skills without any regard to communication skills therefore the answer to the initial question must be that NO communication skills are not important...

Does this little quote ring any bells?

Advising engineering students that communications skills don't matter is pretty reckless, since the lack of such skills will prevent their advancement in their careers. Real-world experience in the corporate world directly contradicts your "advice". Engineers who can only communicate effectively with other engineers are destined to be dead-ended, not promoted.

 

[j93]

Did you not see the bold on the "at all" that is an important qualifier. It was not originally bold therefore I must have made it bold it for a reason, right?