In astronomy what is the average duration of doing postdocs?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the average duration of postdoctoral research in astronomy and the implications of extended postdoc periods on securing permanent positions in the field. Participants explore the typical length of postdocs, the experiences of individuals in the field, and the potential challenges associated with prolonged postdoctoral work.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that most individuals in astronomy typically complete 1 or 2 postdocs, each lasting 2-3 years, and suggests that those who do not secure a permanent position after this may look for jobs in other fields.
  • Another participant poses a hypothetical scenario where financial support allows for an extended series of postdocs, questioning whether this would guarantee or significantly increase the chances of obtaining a permanent research position in astronomy.
  • This participant also raises concerns about the perception of having too many postdocs, suggesting that hiring committees may question why a candidate has not secured a fixed position earlier, potentially favoring younger candidates.
  • A later reply emphasizes that many tenure track positions have specific limits on the number of years since obtaining a PhD, which could impact hiring decisions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of extended postdoctoral research. While some suggest that more postdocs could enhance experience, others argue that it may not necessarily improve chances of securing a permanent position and could raise concerns among hiring committees.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that experiences may vary and that general trends may not apply universally. There are also considerations regarding the specific criteria of hiring committees that could influence outcomes.

Omega Force
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Hello.

I read that in astronomy a PhD lasts an average of 6.1 years.

But what about postdoctoral research?

In astronomy, what is the average duration of doing postdocs before finally getting a real job? (a job as an astronomer; not reconverting to another field to get a job in this other field)

Thanks in advance for your answers.
 
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From my experience, it seems that most people do either 1 or 2 postdocs, each one lasting 2-3 years. If they don't find a "real job" after 2 postdocs, they probably aren't going to, and they look in other fields. Others may have different experiences.
 
I also wondered about this:
Suppose that your parents were rich and provided you with more than enough money to live for as long as you wanted, which means that you have no pressure to quit your postdocs to get a job in a different field than astronomy in order to earn more money.
Would it be possible to continue doing postdocs after postdocs... even if you can't get a permanent position after one or two postdocs you continue doing many many postdocs... for 10 years... maybe even for 15 years... and then, with all this research experience that you have accumulated, surely you will find a permanent position.
Would this be possible? Is this really a 100% sure way to get a permanent position as a researcher in astronomy? Or would this highly increase your chance of getting a permanent position but still not give you 100% certainty of getting a permanent position?
Or is there a flaw in my reasoning somewhere? Maybe you won't get a permanent position after doing 10 to 15 years of postdocs because having made so many postdocs would look extremely weird? Or maybe for some reason it's impossible (or very hard) to be accepted to more postdocs after you have already completed two postdocs?
 
Omega Force said:
Would it be possible to continue doing postdocs after postdocs... even if you can't get a permanent position after one or two postdocs you continue doing many many postdocs... for 10 years... maybe even for 15 years... and then, with all this research experience that you have accumulated, surely you will find a permanent position.
Would this be possible? Is this really a 100% sure way to get a permanent position as a researcher in astronomy? Or would this highly increase your chance of getting a permanent position but still not give you 100% certainty of getting a permanent position?

I would not even say that it increases your chances. Many tenure track positions specifically ask for a maximum number of years since obtaining your PhD and those who do not are often going to prefer younger candidates. The clear question is going to be "why did this person not get a fixed job earlier?" The hiring committees are generally going to look at your production and compare it to your active time, not just look at your total production without regard for how long it took you to get there.

Of course, I am talking in general terms. There may be exceptions.
 

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