In High School chem wrong like HS Physics?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the accuracy of classical models in chemistry, particularly in relation to electron configurations, atomic radii, and the representation of energy levels. Participants explore the limitations of these classical models and consider more accurate quantum mechanical approaches, while also reflecting on their experiences in high school physics and chemistry.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express a desire to challenge classical models taught in honors chemistry, seeking examples that could disprove or refine these models.
  • One participant mentions the electron cloud probability model as a more accurate representation of electron behavior compared to the Bohr model, which is often taught in high school.
  • Another participant points out that while the Bohr model is useful, it does not accurately represent energy levels, as electrons in lower shells can have higher energy than those in higher shells.
  • There is a discussion about the limitations of the Schrödinger Equation, noting that it can only be solved for hydrogen-like atoms and that many electronic configurations are approximations.
  • Participants mention exceptions to Hund's rule and the octet rule, particularly in the context of lanthanides and actinides, indicating complexities in electron configurations.
  • Some participants caution against viewing Newtonian mechanics as "wrong," emphasizing its applicability in engineering and practical contexts, while acknowledging its limitations in certain scenarios.
  • There are suggestions for further reading and study, including recommendations for quantum chemistry texts to deepen understanding of the subject.
  • One participant expresses frustration about the limitations of their current understanding of quantum mechanics and seeks clarification on concepts like ionization energy and atomic radius in relation to quantum models.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a mix of agreement and disagreement. While some acknowledge the limitations of classical models, others defend their utility in practical applications. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to understanding electron behavior and the transition from classical to quantum models.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that classical models serve as a foundation for understanding more complex quantum concepts, but there is uncertainty about how to effectively transition from one to the other. Limitations in the current curriculum and the complexity of quantum mechanics are acknowledged.

  • #31
Rdf

GeneralChemTutor said:
Study the shapes of the suborbitals, their orientations, size, and distance from the nucleus, these are somewhat related to the positional probability and you can more skillfully understand such concepts as you mentioned. This will be more applicable when you enter organic chemistry (which hybrid orbital sp3, sp2, sp, offers more stability for its anion, using the factors I mentioned in the beginning of this post? etc...)

Radial distribution functions are a good help in this context.
 
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  • #32
Why don;t the element if group 3 (Boron, ect..) don't need to have octects?

We refer to them has having open valance shells but why do they have open valance shells?

I am currently in O chem.
 
  • #33
Gokul43201 said:
You can't try to understand QM at this level. Just be patient and you'll learn some of in it college.
Enough Said
 

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