Indefinite Integral: Justification for Dropping Absolute Value Bars

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the justification for dropping absolute value bars when evaluating an indefinite integral involving the secant function. Participants explore the implications of this decision in different regions of the number line and whether it can be done without losing validity.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the justification provided in a book for dropping absolute value bars in the context of an indefinite integral.
  • Another participant asserts that no justification exists for this action, implying that it may be incorrect.
  • A different participant suggests that in regions where sec(x) is positive, the absolute value can be dropped, but in regions where sec(x) is negative, it cannot, and this needs verification.
  • Further clarification is provided that it is necessary to consider both cases (where the function is non-negative and negative) before concluding that the absolute value bars can be dropped.
  • One participant expresses uncertainty about whether absolute value bars can ever be dropped in the specific case of the integral of |sec(x)|.
  • Another participant notes that context matters and suggests that evaluating one case may suffice due to similarities between cases.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally disagree on the justification for dropping absolute value bars, with some asserting it is incorrect and others suggesting it may be valid under certain conditions. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specific case of the integral of |sec(x)|.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need to verify the behavior of the function in different regions of the number line, indicating that assumptions about dropping absolute values should not be made without careful consideration.

phymatter
Messages
131
Reaction score
0
In a book while doing an indefinite integral the author first wrote (sec2 x)1/2 = |sec x| , fine , then the author says the following :
"since we are doing an indefinite integral we can drop the absolute value bars" ,
now what is the justification for this ?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
No such justification exists at all.
 
Code:
No such justification exists at all.
does this mean that the assumption is wrong?
 
Yes.

Suppose you have an indefinite integral of this sort.

First, you should see that in some regions of the number line, where sec(x)>0, you may drop the absolute value sign, and use sec(x) instead.

In other regions of the number line, you need to use |sec(x)|=-sec(x)

Now, it may well happen that that minus sign will not make the local anti-derivative different there than for the other region, but that is actually something you need to VERIFY, rather than to make it into a presupposition.

Understood?
 
Yes.

Suppose you have an indefinite integral of this sort.

First, you should see that in some regions of the number line, where sec(x)>0, you may drop the absolute value sign, and use sec(x) instead.

In other regions of the number line, you need to use |sec(x)|=-sec(x)

Now, it may well happen that that minus sign will not make the local anti-derivative different there than for the other region, but that is actually something you need to VERIFY, rather than to make it into a presupposition.

i got you that it is not correct to drop the absolute value bars arbitrarily , but rather take 2 different cases for |f(x)|>=0 and <0 , then if we get it same we can say we " drop the absolute value bars " ,
but in this case (\int|sec(x)|) i don't think that we can drop the absolute value bars in any case , or is there any such possible condition ??
 
One would have to see the context. Perhaps the task was to do the integral, so (as stated above) there are two cases, but to evaluate one of the cases is enough because of their similarity to each other.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
4K