Is Λa_b the Same as Λba in Tensor Notation?

dyn
Messages
774
Reaction score
63
Index notation in GR is really confusing ! I'm confused about many things but one thing is the order of index placement , ie. is Λa b the same as Λba ? And if not what is the difference ? Thanks
If anyone knows of any books or lecture notes that explain index gymnastics step by step that would be great.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
dyn said:
is Λab the same as Λba ?

Strictly speaking, no. See below.

dyn said:
if not what is the difference ?

The best simple explanation of how a tensor works that I've seen is in Misner, Thorne, & Wheeler, the classic GR textbook. Basically, a tensor is a linear machine with some number of slots, that takes geometric objects as input into the slots and outputs numbers; each slot corresponds to an index. If the index is an upper index, the slot takes a vector as input; if the index is a lower index, the slot takes a covector (or 1-form) as input. The order of the slots matters, so Λab, which takes a vector in the first slot and a 1-form in the second, is not the same as Λba, which takes a 1-form in the first slot and a vector in the second.

In a manifold with metric (which is all we work with in GR), you can always use the metric to convert vectors to 1-forms or vice versa. So you could take a vector and a 1-form that you inserted into the slots of Λab, and insert them into the slots of Λba, by converting the vector to a 1-form (so it will go in the first slot of Λba) and the 1-form to a vector (so it will go in the second slot of Λba). If these two operations both give the same number as output, then the two tensors Λab and Λba can be considered "the same"; in this case, we say the second is just the first with one index lowered and one index raised, using the metric.
 
  • Like
Likes cianfa72 and HallsofIvy
Thanks for your answer. Does that mean indices should never be directly in a vertical line as in that case we wouldn't know the order of the "slots" ?
 
dyn said:
Does that mean indices should never be directly in a vertical line as in that case we wouldn't know the order of the "slots" ?

Yes, although some sources are sloppy about this, probably because in some cases it doesn't actually matter. For example, if a two-index tensor is symmetric, its indexes can be exchanged (i.e., slots swapped) without changing its output. Many key tensors that appear in GR are symmetric (e.g., the metric and the stress-energy tensor).
 
  • Like
Likes dyn
dyn said:
Thanks for your answer. Does that mean indices should never be directly in a vertical line as in that case we wouldn't know the order of the "slots" ?
Just to add (pedantically) that some tensors are anti-symmetric so ##T_{ab}=-T_{ba}##.
 
OK, so this has bugged me for a while about the equivalence principle and the black hole information paradox. If black holes "evaporate" via Hawking radiation, then they cannot exist forever. So, from my external perspective, watching the person fall in, they slow down, freeze, and redshift to "nothing," but never cross the event horizon. Does the equivalence principle say my perspective is valid? If it does, is it possible that that person really never crossed the event horizon? The...
In this video I can see a person walking around lines of curvature on a sphere with an arrow strapped to his waist. His task is to keep the arrow pointed in the same direction How does he do this ? Does he use a reference point like the stars? (that only move very slowly) If that is how he keeps the arrow pointing in the same direction, is that equivalent to saying that he orients the arrow wrt the 3d space that the sphere is embedded in? So ,although one refers to intrinsic curvature...
ASSUMPTIONS 1. Two identical clocks A and B in the same inertial frame are stationary relative to each other a fixed distance L apart. Time passes at the same rate for both. 2. Both clocks are able to send/receive light signals and to write/read the send/receive times into signals. 3. The speed of light is anisotropic. METHOD 1. At time t[A1] and time t[B1], clock A sends a light signal to clock B. The clock B time is unknown to A. 2. Clock B receives the signal from A at time t[B2] and...
Back
Top