Induced Electric Fields in Changing Magnetic Fields: Equations and Applications

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of induced electric fields in response to changing magnetic fields, particularly focusing on the spatial extent of these induced fields and the relevant equations governing their behavior. Participants explore theoretical implications, applications, and specific scenarios involving magnetic fields and electric fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the induced electric field exists only in the region where the magnetic field changes or if it is present everywhere in space, seeking the relevant equations.
  • Another participant references Faraday's law of induction, suggesting that effects propagate outward at the speed of light, eventually influencing every point in space.
  • Concerns are raised about the implications of Maxwell's equations, particularly that if the magnetic field does not change at a specific point, then the curl of the electric field is zero, implying no induced electric field at that point.
  • Further discussion includes the condition where both the electric field and its curl are zero, leading to the conclusion that the electric field could be zero under certain boundary conditions.
  • A participant introduces the concept of retarded potentials, explaining how changes in the vector potential propagate over time and affect distant points, emphasizing that changes in the magnetic field at a single point cannot be isolated.
  • Another participant asserts that regardless of where in space the magnetic field changes, there exists a time when every point in space experiences the induced electric field.
  • A specific scenario involving a bicycle wheel with a linear charge and a magnetic field is presented, questioning the validity of applying Faraday's law when the magnetic field is switched off and whether the effects are felt instantaneously or propagate through space.
  • Discussion continues on the continuity of the magnetic field, suggesting that it cannot be discontinuous and that changes at one point induce effects in surrounding regions through the concept of displacement current.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the propagation of induced electric fields and the implications of discontinuities in magnetic fields. There is no consensus on the nature of the induced electric fields or the application of Faraday's law in the presented scenario.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations regarding assumptions about the continuity of magnetic fields and the conditions under which Maxwell's equations apply, particularly in scenarios involving discontinuities.

pardesi
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suppose there is a region S through which the magnetic field changes with time then is the electric field induced there only or everywhere in space .
if everywhere what equations does it satisfy
 
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Interesting question, the relevant equation is Faraday's law (of induction) and the effects propagate outward from the event at the speed of light, eventually (in classical theory) making a contribution to every point in space.
 
but going by what maxwell says
[tex]\nabla \cross E= -\frac{\delta B}{\delta t}[/tex]
if at a point B does not change then no curl of E hence most probably no E .
 
in fact if we have the surrounding region of E also curl 0 with the condition that
[tex]\nabla.E=0[/tex] and the boundary condition we have indeed [tex]E \equiv 0[/tex]
 
Sorry I am out of practice with TeX

E = -grad(V) + A'

where A is the vector potential and prime denotes derivative with time. Look for a discussion of retarded potentials to see how A propagates with time, but suffice to say it does, and whatever changes happen to A at a particular point d distance away from me will in principle be felt after a duration t = c/d, where c is the speed of light.

Edit: If B changes at a single point, then that change will eventually propagate away, but your argument assumes that B can change at one isolated point only, when this is impossible under the assumption of continuous fields i.e. the differential form of Maxwell would not apply at that point of discontinuity. Granted, discontinuities can occur in the theory of Maxwell's equations n matter, but I am not qualified to give an answer that takes matter into account.
 
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so no matter where in space the magnetic field changes every point in space feels the change that is there exists a time t when it experiences the field
 
well the actual doubt arose from a very well known question having a strange field
the question
a bicycle wheel has linearcharge [tex]\lambda[/tex] glued to it in the rim which is very thin.Also the spokes ar non conducting.Radius of the wheel is [tex]b[/tex].A magnetic field [tex]\vec B_{0}[/tex] exists in the circular region around the centre of wheel within radius [tex]a <b[/tex] coming out of the plane of the wheel.The field is insytantaneously switched off find the final angular speed of the wheel.

Well the proof started by assuming the flux change across the rim obeys farady's law but doesn't that seem strange .Field actually changes at a point and effects are felt elsewhere
 
pardesi said:
A magnetic field [tex]\vec B_{0}[/tex] exists in the circular region around the centre of wheel within radius [tex]a <b[/tex] coming out of the plane of the wheel.

The magnetic field exist in the prescribed region, but it does not say that this is the only region where a non-zero magnetic field exist, and in particular the field could not be discontinuous so it must be non-zero around the fringes of the described region.

I am not totally satisfied with the answer I have given concerning discontinuities, but the one about propagation is more solid. If B changes at a point, this induces the curl of E at that point, but this non-zero E acts as a displacement current to produce a B in an (infinitesimal but slightly larger) Amperian loop, which is changing and so produces E in a slightly larger infinitesimal loop etc.
 

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