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Infinitely evolved

  1. Sep 11, 2003 #1

    Ivan Seeking

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    Loosely, and according to String Theory, the Big Bang may have resulted from a 10 or 11 dimensional hypersurface "collapsing" into the familiar 4 dimensions of our "reality" - the other 6 or 7 dimensions are effectively hidden. I believe that this would mean that the universe could be infinitely old. This could in turn allow for beings that are infinitely evolved. Of course they would have had to manage the collapse and resulting Big Bang somehow, but for an infinitely evolved being this may be no problem.

    Is this a hint of a scientific argument for the existence of a God or Gods? Might a precursor to Kaku's Type IV beings - the infinite type which I suggest as type V - have been body surfing the Big Bang?

    What might be the characteristics of an infinitely evolved being?
     
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  3. Sep 11, 2003 #2

    selfAdjoint

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    Sounds more like paganism. There is no reason to suppose those beings are united, it would be more reasonable (more monkeylike, that is :) ) to assume they have differences.
     
  4. Sep 11, 2003 #3
    Ivan, when the "hypersurface" (as you call it) collapses, the 3 dimensions that we are used to are expanding. It is when the "hypersurface" is expanding (and reaching critical mass) that ours are collapsing (and reaching the smallest size possible in M-Theory). Anyway, I suppose that that could be possible, even though most scientists do believe that life will be quite impossible long before our 3 dimensions begin collapsing in on themselves (lack of resources, almost complete dissipation of all higher elements (higher than, perhaps, lithium), etc...).
     
  5. Sep 11, 2003 #4
    Just in then name of running with this I'll bite. Maybe I've just seen one too many Star Trek episodes, but in order for a lifeform to survive BB, wouldn't they practically have to be pure energy? And if they were infinitely evolved, one would assumed they've discovered a way to tranfser to our "unsquished" dimension. Just a thought..
     
  6. Sep 11, 2003 #5

    Ivan Seeking

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    I agree that this is way out there; but no less I think than Kaku's mini-universe bubble transport that would allow type IV beings to travel from universe to universe. What strikes me is that if the universe could be infinitely old, then so might life. I had never considered eternal life outside of a religious context. If such life could exist, the implications make my head spin. Imagine a being that has evolved forever. WOW!

    Of course, we have very little on which to base ideas about what life [intelligences] might be possible in higher dimensions.
     
  7. Sep 11, 2003 #6

    Ivan Seeking

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    Just as type IV are masters of time and space, the type V's are masters of eternity and all hyperspaces. Obviously!
     
  8. Sep 11, 2003 #7

    Ivan Seeking

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    Granted. But it also seems that such a being could meet our definitions for God in every way. This is course assumes that a type V has all of the powers of a type IV being.
     
  9. Sep 12, 2003 #8
    "Sounds more like paganism."

    what an ugly label that is. the tacit premise, i possibly take it, is that there's something wrong with paganism.

    i'm considering the following possibility.

    there are infinitely many orders of infinity. it starts with an infinity the size of the natural numbers and the next infinity is that of the continuum. these are given cardinal numbers aleph null and aleph one respectively. all finite numbers are, well, finite.

    what if our God is just an aleph null type of infinite being only at the lowest level of infinities? in that sense, God would have a God God. that God God would have a God God God, and so it would go ad infinitum. we are all finite beings only considering the first order of infinity in God. i wonder if God wonders about its God God and whether or not there is a God of Gods. mathematically, there would be no God of Gods. or, if you please, angels could be aleph null beings while God is an aleph one being.

    but, then again, there is a class of all sets and a category of all categories. so maybe there is a God of Gods...

    a collection of infinitely evolved beings, in other words. what would be the point for them to ever contact us finite beings except to help us evolve into something like they are? but then, they'd have to value their infiniteness over finiteness when, in fact, they may wish to be finite as much as some of us wish to be infinite, like a vampire who wants to be a human again.

    so perhaps type IV beings are the first with infiniteness. then there would potentially exist type V and VI, and blah blah blah...

    i know this line of inquiry is almost a complete waste of time; just something that occured to me one day while staring at the ceiling.

    cheers,
    phoenix
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2003
  10. Sep 12, 2003 #9
    I think you would very much enjoy the last parts of the lecture, "Journey Through the Tenth Dimensions" (by Michio Kaku), which is available on auiotape at some of the libraries in my area - though I can't be sure that they have it where you live.

    In this last portion of the lecture, Prof. Kaku gives a little hypothetical scenario. He says that mankind reaches Type 1 status, and uses it's new powers to create an artifical intelligence computer, the size of an entire continent. They ask it, "What is the meaning and eventual end of life?" The AI jiggles and pings, and says "Too much information required, cannot compute". So, mankind waits until they have evolved to Type 2 status, and then they make the AI computer the size of a solar system, and they ask it, "What is the meaning and end of life?" and the computer again jiggles and pings and vibrates and says "Too much information, cannot compute". So, eons later, when the Universe is pretty much "out of gas" (a rather odd statement when discussing the eventual collapse of the Universe, but anyway...), and is going to collapse in on itself, mankind (which is just energy beings now, and have finally reached Type 4 status) builds an enormous AI computer - the size of an entire galaxy - and they ask it, "What is the meaning and end of life?" and the computer jiggles and pings and vibrates and says "I've got it"...and then collects all of the energy left in the Universe and causes it to explode, and says "In the beginning, I created the heavens and the Earth, and it was good".

    At least, that's how I remember the illustration. Anway, it seems to fit (somewhat) with your speculation about God.
     
  11. Sep 22, 2003 #10

    Ivan Seeking

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    And I sure that you were going to say 42. Darn!
     
  12. Sep 22, 2003 #11
    LOL!
     
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