Integrals over vector fields and Ampere's Law

In summary: Wait I just figured it out. ##f(r(t)) = |B(t)|##Okay sorry for the interruption. It's just interesting to see the calculation of the integral in different forms.In summary, the conversation discusses the relationship between a steady current in a long wire and the magnetic field produced perpendicular to the wire. Ampere's Law is introduced, which relates the electric current to its magnetic effects. By taking a circle with radius r, it is possible to show that the magnitude of the magnetic field at a distance r from the center of the wire is equal to μI/2πr. The conversation also explores how to interpret the integral and the role of parameterization in solving it.
  • #1
Agent 47
10
0

Homework Statement



Experiments show that a steady current I in a long wire produces a magnetic field B that is tangent to any circle in the plane perpendicular to the wire and whose center is the axis of the wire. Ampere's Law relates the electric current to its magnetic effects and states that

##\int B \cdot dr = \mu I##

where ##I## is the net current that passes through any surface bounded by a closed curve ##C## and ##\mu## is a constant called the permeability of free space. By taking ##C## to be a circle with radius ##r##, show that the magnitude ##B = |B|## of the magnetic field at a distance ##r## from the center of the wire is

##B= \frac {\mu I} {2 \pi r}##

Could someone explain this to me? I've already googled the question and found two "answers"

Here: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130501142004AAfJ8Nn

and

Here: http://sites.fas.harvard.edu/~math21a/handouts/hw28.pdf

but they weren't in depth enough.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
Agent 47 said:

Homework Statement



Experiments show that a steady current I in a long wire produces a magnetic field B that is tangent to any circle in the plane perpendicular to the wire and whose center is the axis of the wire. Ampere's Law relates the electric current to its magnetic effects and states that

##\int B \cdot dr = \mu I##

where ##I## is the net current that passes through any surface bounded by a closed curve ##C## and ##\mu## is a constant called the permeability of free space. By taking ##C## to be a circle with radius ##r##, show that the magnitude ##B = |B|## of the magnetic field at a distance ##r## from the center of the wire is

##B= \frac {\mu I} {2 \pi r}##

Could someone explain this to me? I've already googled the question and found two "answers"

Here: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20130501142004AAfJ8Nn

and

Here: http://sites.fas.harvard.edu/~math21a/handouts/hw28.pdf

but they weren't in depth enough.

What you've found should be plenty to work with. What about the explanation confuses you? Try to ask a specific question.
 
  • #3
I guess I'm just looking for the intermediate step in a more detailed manner. How do you determine ##\int B \cdot dr = B 2 \pi r##? What are the limits of integration? Are there any limits of integration? Is B interpreted as a constant? I know the beginning of the problem. I know the end. I just don't know how to connect the dots.
 
  • #4
Agent 47 said:
I guess I'm just looking for the intermediate step in a more detailed manner. How do you determine ##\int B \cdot dr = B 2 \pi r##? What are the limits of integration? Are there any limits of integration? Is B interpreted as a constant? I know the beginning of the problem. I know the end. I just don't know how to connect the dots.

##\vec B## isn't constant as you move around the circular curve. It's direction, at least, will change since the problem states it's always parallel to the direction of the circular curve ##d \vec r##. You can also argue by the symmetry of the problem that its magnitude doesn't change. Why should it be larger at one particular point along the circumference than another? So shouldn't that mean ##\vec B \cdot d \vec r## must be a constant as you integrate around the circle? Further, what's the magnitude of ##|\vec B \cdot d \vec r|## since the two vectors are parallel? Is that helping?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes 1 person
  • #5
I think I understand. So is this the integral I was looking for?


##B \int_0^{2 \pi r} dr##
 
  • #6
That equation is a line integral over a vector field; see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Line_integral#Line_integral_of_a_vector_field

Imagine the plane perpendicular to the wire where the current (positive current) is pointing at you. Put a coordinate system on the plane with the origin at the point where the wire intersects the plane (you assume the wire is infinitely thin). Now you can represent each point on the circle by (rcost, rsint) for t in the interval [0, 2π]. The derivative is (-rsin(t), rcos(t)). From experiment, the direction of the magnetic field vector is tangent to the circle (Right Hand Rule). Since the magnetic field vector and the derivative are 'pointing in the same direction', the dot product is just the product of the magnitudes (recall the dot product of two vectors is the product of the magnitudes of the vectors and cosine of the angle between the vectors; so if they are pointing in the same direction, the cosine factor is 1). Hence you get ∫|B||r|dt where the limits are from t = 0 to t = 2π. And that is how you get Br2π = μI.
 
  • #7
Agent 47 said:
I think I understand. So is this the integral I was looking for?


##B \int_0^{2 \pi r} dr##

Sure, you are integrating ##B dr## over a circle of circumference ##2 \pi r##. It's only stated that ##\vec B## is parallel to ##d \vec r## so ##\vec B \cdot d \vec r## might be ##-|B|dr##, but that's not going to matter in the absolute value.
 
Last edited:
  • #8
So I guess this leads into another question for me.

When do you interpret ##dr## as just ##dr## and when do you interpret it as ##r'(t)##?

Does it depend on whether or not I decide to parameterize it?
 
  • #9
Agent 47 said:
So I guess this leads into another question for me.

When do you interpret ##dr## as just ##dr## and when do you interpret it as ##r'(t)##?

Does it depend on whether or not I decide to parameterize it?

If you parameterize is it's ##dr = r'(t)dt##. But it doesn't matter whether you parametrize it or not, ##dr## is still arc length.
 
  • Like
Likes 1 person
  • #10
Okay I appreciate all your help. I get it now.

Out of curiosity would it be possible to solve this integral by parameterizing it?

I just tried and I know I have to get it into the form ##\int_C f(r(t)) \cdot r'(t)dt##

So to get a circle of radius r

##r(t) = r<cost,sint>##
##r'(t) = r<-sint,cost>##

But then how would you interpret ##f(r(t))## in relation to the problem?
 
  • #11
Agent 47 said:
Okay I appreciate all your help. I get it now.

Out of curiosity would it be possible to solve this integral by parameterizing it?

I just tried and I know I have to get it into the form ##\int_C f(r(t)) \cdot r'(t)dt##

So to get a circle of radius r

##r(t) = r<cost,sint>##
##r'(t) = r<-sint,cost>##

But then how would you interpret ##f(r(t))## in relation to the problem?

Do you mean ##B(r(t))##? That's supposed to be parallel to the tangent ##r'(t)## and have magnitude |B|. So it must be ##B(r(t))=\pm|B|<-sin(t),cos(t)>##, right?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes 1 person

What is an integral over a vector field?

An integral over a vector field is a mathematical tool used to calculate the total value of a vector quantity over a specified region. It involves breaking down the region into smaller parts and summing up the contributions of the vector field at each point.

What is Ampere's Law?

Ampere's Law is a fundamental law of electromagnetism that relates the magnetic field around a closed loop to the electric current passing through the loop. It states that the line integral of the magnetic field around a closed loop is equal to the product of the electric current passing through the loop and a constant known as the permeability of free space.

How are integrals over vector fields related to Ampere's Law?

Integrals over vector fields are used in the calculation of the magnetic field in Ampere's Law. The line integral in the law represents the sum of the contributions of the magnetic field over a closed loop, which can be calculated using an integral over a vector field.

What are some real-world applications of integrals over vector fields and Ampere's Law?

Integrals over vector fields and Ampere's Law have various applications in physics and engineering, such as calculating the magnetic field around a wire carrying an electric current, designing electromagnets for medical imaging machines, and studying the behavior of particles in particle accelerators.

What are some other laws and equations that are related to integrals over vector fields and Ampere's Law?

Other related laws and equations include Gauss's Law for magnetism, Faraday's Law of induction, and the Biot-Savart Law. These laws and equations are all part of the fundamental principles of electromagnetism and are used in conjunction with integrals over vector fields and Ampere's Law to solve complex problems and make predictions about the behavior of electromagnetic systems.

Similar threads

Replies
8
Views
672
  • Calculus and Beyond Homework Help
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • Introductory Physics Homework Help
Replies
3
Views
329
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • Electromagnetism
Replies
5
Views
973
Replies
1
Views
767
  • Electrical Engineering
Replies
2
Views
862
  • Electromagnetism
Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
14
Views
637
Replies
2
Views
1K
Back
Top