Integrate Fun Math Challenges for New Year's Celebration

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter samalkhaiat
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Fun Integrate
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around integrating mathematical expressions involving vectors and spherical coordinates as part of a New Year's celebration challenge. Participants explore the integration of specific functions and engage in clarifying the notation used, particularly regarding the representation of angles and vectors.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents two integrals involving constant vectors and a unit vector, questioning the integration limits and the notation used for angles.
  • Several participants express confusion over the use of "8" instead of the conventional symbol for angles, suggesting it complicates understanding.
  • Another participant proposes a potential answer to the first integral, but others challenge its validity, suggesting that the angle should not be treated as a constant.
  • There is a discussion about the scalar nature of the integral and how it should be constructed from scalar products of the vectors involved.
  • Participants debate the implications of assuming certain vectors are equal and how that affects the integration results.
  • One participant shares a similar integral from a calculus textbook, inviting others to explore it further.
  • Some participants express frustration with the notation used and encourage others to learn LaTeX for clearer communication.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

There is no consensus on the validity of the proposed solutions or the interpretation of the integrals. Participants express differing views on the notation and the assumptions made regarding the vectors involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note limitations in clarity due to the notation used, particularly regarding the angle representation and the treatment of vectors as constants. The discussion includes unresolved mathematical steps and varying interpretations of the integrals.

  • #31
benorin said:
show that
\int\int\int \left( \vec{a}\cdot\vec{r}\right) \left( \vec{b}\cdot\vec{r}\right) \left( \vec{c}\cdot\vec{r}\right) dV =\frac{ \left( \alpha\beta\gamma\right) ^2}{8\left| \vec{a}\cdot\left( \vec{b}\times\vec{c}\right) \right|}
(this one comes out of Stewart, Calculus 4th ed., ch. 15 Problems Plus #4 on pg. 1038).
Enjoy :rolleyes:

The integral is scalar. a.(bxc) is the only scalar formed from three vectors. But this scalar is antisymmetric, while the integral is symmetric. So, we must have |a.(bxc)|.
Thus, we can write,
\int (\vec{a}.\vec{r})(\vec{b}.\vec{r})(\vec{c}.\vec{r}) dV=A[\left| \vec{a}\cdot\left( \vec{b}\times\vec{c} \right) \right|]^n
now take,
\vec{a}=\hat{i}|\vec{a}|, \vec{b}=\hat{j}|\vec{b}|, and, \vec{c}=\hat{k}|\vec{c}|
and find;
n=-1 and A=\frac{(\alpha\beta\gamma)^2}{8}


regards

sam
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #32
integrate this:
I( \vec{a}, \vec{K})= \int_{-1}^{+1} \frac{( \vec{a}. \hat{r})} {(1+ \vec{K}. \hat{r})} d(cos{\theta})
I will do this around this time tomorow, till then,(hint); think about this
J(\vec{K})=\int_{-1}^{+1} \frac{\hat{r} }{(1+ \vec{K}. \hat{r})}d(cos{\theta})
If you know the nature of this integral, the rest will be very easy:confused:

regards

sam
 
  • #33
samalkhaiat said:
I will do this around this time tomorow, till then,(hint); think about this
J(\vec{K})=\int_{-1}^{+1} \frac{\hat{r} }{(1+ \vec{K}. \hat{r})}d(cos{\theta})
If you know the nature of this integral, the rest will be very easy:confused:
regards
sam

Hi every one,

Note that, \vec{J(K)}=\int_{-1}^{+1}\frac{\hat{r} }{(1+ \vec{K}. \hat{r})}d(cos{\theta}), is a vector. Since K is the only available vector, we must have, for some constant A;
\vec{J(K)}=A\vec{K}

Thus,

A=\frac{\vec{K}.\vec{J(K)}}{K^2}=\frac{1}{K^2} \int_{-1}^{+1}\frac{\vec{K}. \hat{r}}{1+ \vec{K}. \hat{r}} d(cos{\theta})

this can be written as,

A=\frac{1}{K^2}\int_{-1}^{+1}[1-\frac{1}{1+ \vec{K}.\hat{r}}]d(cos{\theta})

note that, \vec{K}. \hat{r}=|K|cos{\theta},thus

A=\frac{1}{K^2}[2- \frac{1}{|K|} ln( \frac{1+|K|}{1-|K|})]

Now you have A, you get

\vec{J(K)}=A\vec{K}

and,

I(\vec{a},\vec{K})= \vec{J}. \vec{a}=\frac{\vec{a}.\vec{K}}{K^2}[2-\frac{1}{|K|}ln(\frac{1+|K|}{1-|K|})]

Job done:wink:

regards

sam
 
Last edited:
  • #34

This, very challenging one, is for all PF members and mentors, Integrate this

\Gamma(\vec{k},\vec{p})=\int_{-1}^{+1} \frac{d(cos{\theta})}{(1+ \vec{k}. \hat{r})(1+ \vec{p}. \hat{r})}


regards


sam
 
Last edited:
  • #35
why do i feeel i am talikng to billy criystal?
 
  • #36
mathwonk said:
why do i feeel i am talikng to billy criystal?

talikng?, Do you mean "talking"?:wink:
criystal?, Do you mean "cristall", "crystal" or what?:confused:
Mathwonk, I hope you spelt this one right:blushing: , are you a comedian by any chance? I must admit, you made me laugh:smile: :smile:

You think this thread is turning to a one-man-show. Yes, so what? This does not bother me because many people, I believe, have gained some useful mathematical tricks from this (hot) thread. And this makes me happyo:)
Look, if you can not do the integrals, you could, either ask questions or don't reply to the posts.:mad:
I remember, I spent four hours trying to do the last integral. So, it is not a shameful thing, if you can not do it! But again, the problem is you call yourself mathwonk and you are supposed to be a science advisor:-p
Ok, mathwonk-science advisor, I consider myself lucky, for I will never need your advice.:devil:

Byeeee

sam
 
  • #37
samalkhaiat said:
talikng?, Do you mean "talking"?:wink:
criystal?, Do you mean "cristall", "crystal" or what?:confused:
Mathwonk, I hope you spelt this one right:blushing: , are you a comedian by any chance? I must admit, you made me laugh:smile: :smile:
You think this thread is turning to a one-man-show. Yes, so what? This does not bother me because many people, I believe, have gained some useful mathematical tricks from this (hot) thread. And this makes me happyo:)
Look, if you can not do the integrals, you could, either ask questions or don't reply to the posts.:mad:
I remember, I spent four hours trying to do the last integral. So, it is not a shameful thing, if you can not do it! But again, the problem is you call yourself mathwonk and you are supposed to be a science advisor:-p
Ok, mathwonk-science advisor, I consider myself lucky, for I will never need your advice.:devil:
Byeeee
sam
The job of an advisor is not to answer any challenge problem (or show-off) problem. Their job is to help individual who has difficulty in certain field (since this is a Sciences/Maths forum.) Since all your difficulties of these questions have been solved by yourself, I personally don’t think that they are responsible to answer solved problem of yours. If you really have difficulty to do your homework or make an important decision of your life, I am sure they are more than happy to give you advice.

Sorry for my broken English :biggrin: :biggrin:
 
  • #38
I think this thread is about done.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 16 ·
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • · Replies 137 ·
5
Replies
137
Views
20K
  • · Replies 93 ·
4
Replies
93
Views
16K
  • · Replies 107 ·
4
Replies
107
Views
20K
  • · Replies 102 ·
4
Replies
102
Views
11K
  • · Replies 25 ·
Replies
25
Views
5K
  • · Replies 104 ·
4
Replies
104
Views
17K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
7K
  • · Replies 33 ·
2
Replies
33
Views
9K