Is entanglement based on first principles?

[bhobba]

They can be derived from each other only in the case of diagonal elements, the energy eigenstates.

The proof makes no use of a particular basis an operators matrix representation is diagonal in. Its simply got to do with operators have matrix representation ie given ANY basis |bi>, O = ∑∑ |bi><bi|O|bj><bj| = ∑∑ <bi|O|bj>|bi><bj|. <bi|O|bj> is the matrix representation of O. In matrix mechanics the state doesn't change - only the operator so the state isn't explicitly part of it. Thus there is a one to one correspondence between matrix and wave mechanics. To be explicit given any matrix in matrix mechanics we can find the corresponding operator in wave mechanics and conversely. That's all there is to it really.

Now to support your claim detail the exact error in what I wrote above. Not a reference, but the exact error.

Thanks
Bill

 

[harrylin]

[..]they are still just correlations. If you want it to be like red and green slips then you must have non local interactions. That's all there is to it.

But people for some reason make more out of it.
..

Thanks for the clarification; I did not see people make more out of it.

 

[nortonian]

Wave mechanics can be used to calculate anything matrix mechanics can, and conversely.

So show how transition probabilities can be obtained from wave mechanics.

Its a theorem and is 100% true. If you think otherwise please detail the error in the proof that has escaped notice by the countless number of people that have studied it. Not some vague references to this or that but the actual error.

By first principles I meant duplicating the results of the original experiments. Of course MM and WM are equivalent they are talking about the same thing, atomic structure, but no I am not capable of determining where the mathematics is incomplete.

Now to support your claim detail the exact error in what I wrote above. Not a reference, but the exact error.

There is an obvious difference in what we interpret as "first principles".
.

 

[bhobba]

So show how transition probabilities can be obtained from wave mechanics.

That's Fermies Golden Rule and it is standard textbook stuff:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermi's_golden_rule

By first principles I meant duplicating the results of the original experiments.

What original experiments relating to entanglement are you taking about?

Of course MM and WM are equivalent they are talking about the same thing, atomic structure, but no I am not capable of determining where the mathematics is incomplete. There is an obvious difference in what we interpret as "first principles".
.

Now you lost me. First you say they are not equivalent, then you say of course they are. And yes different equivalent formulations of a theory have different interpretations but that in no way changes their equivalence.

You say you are not capable of determining where the math is incomplete, yet want to overturn current orthodoxy. The first requirement for overturning accepted science is to understand it.

I suggest you learn some QM. Virtually any good book on QM will explain the equivalence between WM and MM.

Thanks
Bill

 

[Dale]

Closed pending moderation

Edit: we will leave the thread closed, it seemed to be heading in a bad direction