Is it better to have loved and lost than to have ever loved at all?

[FUNKER]

Is it better to have loved and lost than to have ever loved at all?

 

[Evo]

my personal experience...no

When I was younger I was baffled by an older co-worker who said she would never allow herself to fall in love again, that it just wasn't worth it.

Now I understand.

 

[The_Professional]

It's something to do with choosing the wrong type of Guy. Since when it comes to relationships, Guys do the picking but Women do the choosing.

Choose wisely

 

[Evo]

I thought I was a good judge of character. I got to say this guy could win an oscar. I've since heard the same from other people that have known him. Oh well, I'm older and wiser now.

 

[The_Professional]

huh?

 

[motai]

Several girls that I know are extremely bad judges of character. They choose the thugs who look like they just got out of jail and like to club each other often (reference to How to Attract A Babe: The Old School of the Thought post).

After a while the girls break up with the guys, call them jerks, never learn of their past experiences, and the girl finds another thug and the cycle starts up all over again. Very pre-didily-ictable.

 

[Monique]

It is better to have loved and lost, than never to have loved at all.

Ofcourse if the loss was for all the wrong reasons, there is something to be said for never having loved at all, but that never happened to me.

Wouldn't it be ideal to not loose? Though?

 

[FUNKER]

I believe some are missing the point here, how is it possible to appreciate the good days without experiencing the bad? Thats why i believe Shakespeare wrote it is better.

 

[jimmy p]

A wise man once said

"love is only an instinct for reproduction"

I would rather not love, my one experience wasnt worth the pain afterwards, so i will quit while I'm ahead.

Also i have noticed that girls go for thugs. Maybe it's a power craze cos even the stupidest girls will be smarter than their boyfriends . Nature favours idiots?

 

[null]

Originally posted by FUNKER
I believe some are missing the point here, how is it possible to appreciate the good days without experiencing the bad? Thats why i believe Shakespeare wrote it is better.

I agree with Funker

It makes me sad that so many of you have had such harsh experiences with love in the past that you have shut yourselves to the possibility of love. I know from personal experience the pain and hearbreak that accompanies love. I think though that being in Love is one of the most amazing things you can experience as a human being, heartbreak and all. So to get the most out of our existants as humans we need to feel all that we can, experience the full range of human emotion. So if given the opportunity for love jump in with both feet, don't look back, even knowing that it will likely end one day. So be brave my fellow PFers and focus on the moment and jump in with both feet.

 

[null]

Originally posted by jimmy p

Also i have noticed that girls go for thugs. Maybe it's a power craze cos even the stupidest girls will be smarter than their boyfriends . Nature favours idiots?

You know girls always get blamed for choosing the wrong guys, thugs and such. But come on if this is the type of girl that you wanted then you are not choosing well either . There are tons of girls out there that think smart guys are hot, and go for nice guys. So Come'on now jimmy p were not all bad .

 

[Monique]

Originally posted by FUNKER
I believe some are missing the point here, how is it possible to appreciate the good days without experiencing the bad? Thats why i believe Shakespeare wrote it is better.

WHOA!
Experience the bad to appreciate the good? No, not my point of view at all.. I'd very happily go without experiencing the bad, thank you

 

[Andy]

True love conquers all...or something along those lines.

 

[The_Professional]

Originally posted by jimmy p

Also i have noticed that girls go for thugs. Maybe it's a power craze cos even the stupidest girls will be smarter than their boyfriends . Nature favours idiots?

Because girls don't know what they want. They really dont.

You have to find a balance between being a nice guy, and saying No once in a while if you truly believe it and you're not talking through your ego.

 

[motai]

Originally posted by null
You know girls always get blamed for choosing the wrong guys, thugs and such. But come on if this is the type of girl that you wanted then you are not choosing well either . There are tons of girls out there that think smart guys are hot, and go for nice guys. So Come'on now jimmy p were not all bad .

If girls like that are out there, they sure are far less numerous than the thug-liking type. I certainly havn't met any recently.

 

[Be Happy!]

QUOTE]Originally posted by FUNKER
Is it better to have loved and lost than to have ever loved at all? [/QUOTE]

The premise for this question is incorrect.--If you truly love, then you cannot have lost...When love touches you, you will know. It will leave a lasting imprint on who you are and what you become.

The conversations I see around this quote seem to be more about picking the right guy than about love...but I think there is something deeper that we can touch in a discussion about love.

Love is not something to be lost...it is yours forever...It is an emotion that has empowered many to become the best of who they can be...

People may come and go...love is here to stay.

 

[Monique]

Originally posted by motai
If girls like that are out there, they sure are far less numerous than the thug-liking type. I certainly havn't met any recently.

You met one today -> me :)

Originally posted by Be Happy!
Love is not something to be lost...it is yours forever...It is an emotion that has empowered many to become the best of who they can be...

People may come and go...love is here to stay.

Very true, I feel the same.

 

[Evo]

Originally posted by Monique
WHOA!
Experience the bad to appreciate the good? No, not my point of view at all.. I'd very happily go without experiencing the bad, thank you

I agree with Monique. I can appreciate the beauty & fragrance of a rose without the pain of being pricked by the thorns.

Originally posted by motai
If girls like that are out there, they sure are far less numerous than the thug-liking type. I certainly havn't met any recently.

I have never gone for the thug type. I have always gone for the quiet, shy, nerdy type, preferably with glasses! My disaster was when I was talked into dating a gorgeous, super athletic type that I had little in common with. He didn't break my heart, I left him, but he caused me significant financial damage before I realized what he was up to, we were married. He is currently under a court order to pay back $292,000. Long, long story.

The result is that I would have been much better off never meeting him, so my answer to "Is it better to have loved and lost than to never have loved at all" is no. Sometimes the pain outweighs the gain.

Originally posted by The Professional - Because girls don't know what they want. They really dont.

That's not true. I know exactly what I want and what I don't want in man. I've learned what is important (to me) in a relationship. I understand my faults and limitations now and how much I am willing to give or bend to make a relationship work and with that comes an understanding of when to admit that there is too much incompatibility to pursue a healthy relationship.

 

[Monique]

I guess we've only got intelligent women coming to these forums Ivan is not a thug eiter, right, Tsunami?

 

[zoobyshoe]

Originally posted by Evo
I agree with Monique. I can appreciate the beauty & fragrance of a rose without the pain of being pricked by the thorns.

Same here. There is nothing enobling about pain. After a certain point it just numbs you, or prevents you from allowing yourself to enjoy things.

I have never gone for the thug type. I have always gone for the quiet, shy, nerdy type, preferably with glasses!

Great. Here I am, eight feet tall, covered with hair, built like a brick wall, and you want Mr. Peepers.

I know exactly what I want and what I don't want in man. I've learned what is important (to me) in a relationship. I understand my faults and limitations now and how much I am willing to give or bend to make a relationship work and with that comes an understanding of when to admit that there is too much incompatibility to pursue a healthy relationship.

I always think I know what I want. Then I'll find myself attracted to someone who doesn't fit the profile.

In general my experience with women is that they will put more effort into trying to salvage an incompatible relationship than a man will, but of course, every woman is different.

Whether or not someone is richer after a love lost depends a lot on homework the loss happens. Discovering your mate is a thief is a whole different ball of wax then loss by death, and even from loss because they preferred another. In some cases the whole experience was a waste. In others there was much good, in spite of the fact it ended somehow.

So, I think Shakespeare was right in some cases, wrong in others.

 

[Tsu]

Originally posted by Monique
I guess we've only got intelligent women coming to these forums Ivan is not a thug eiter, right, Tsunami?

Ivan is as far from being a thug as one could possibly be! He's the coolest nerd I've ever known. I have to admit though, IMO, he's a true one-of-a-kind. I've never met ANYONE quite like Ivan. He's the BEST!

 

[jimmy p]

no one appreciated my cool quote [b(] [b(]

 

[Kalimaa23]

Tsunami, I have been meaning to ask you about your avatar. Who is that adorable little creature?

 

[Tsu]

Originally posted by Dimitri Terryn
Tsunami, I have been meaning to ask you about your avatar. Who is that adorable little creature?

Why, thank you, Dimitri! That's ME!
OK, not really. But, isn't that just the most crack-ya-up look? I got the picture from a friend in an email (a collection of pix of funny looking critters). This one was labeled "If Looks Could Kill". There were a couple of chewed up socks in the background. I loved it so much I decided to use it as my avatar for a while. I also have it as my desktop picture. I just grin everytime I see it.

 

[motai]

Originally posted by Evo
I have never gone for the thug type. I have always gone for the quiet, shy, nerdy type, preferably with glasses! My disaster was when I was talked into dating a gorgeous, super athletic type that I had little in common with.

Not very many girls that I know fit that description. My eyesight is fine and I don't require glasses (although my right eye is 20/50... might need monocle, compared to the 20/15 left eye).

My hypothesis that a girl likes a smart athletic guy has failed me so far (given my relative inexperience in this field, I think I am wrong). Though I am an avid runner and one of the top of my class, most girls at my school still like the thugz and d00dz (of which I can describe as chubby and disrepectful to authority).

An example of some of these thugs behavior:
One time I was doing a ten mile run when one of these thugs on a bike insulted me and sped off on his bike. My immediate thought was "You'd better bike off and hope your baggy pants won't get caught up on the gear system!" Who insults a completely random stranger anyway? Its no wonder the girls call them jerks (yet still manage to find another one to go out with).

In response to the original question: Is it better to have loved and lost than to have ever loved at all? I think... meh.

edit: maybe I am overgeneralizing, but I don't care. My observations of everyone around me makes me think that all hope for me is lost.

 

[FUNKER]

Originally posted by Monique
WHOA!
Experience the bad to appreciate the good? No, not my point of view at all.. I'd very happily go without experiencing the bad, thank you
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you obviously didnt understand what i said. If all you knew was a good day, you would not acknowledge it as a good day it would be a normality, therefore you would not be able to appreciate it. you require somethings opppsite to know what it is, a reference point. Its all relativity.

 

[Evo]

Originally posted by FUNKER
you obviously didnt understand what i said. If all you knew was a good day, you would not acknowledge it as a good day it would be a normality, therefore you would not be able to appreciate it. you require somethings opppsite to know what it is, a reference point. Its all relativity.

When you put it that way, yes, I agree with you. It's like saying "how do you know what is "good" if you don't know what is "bad". But the saying you referenced isn't asking "how do you know what love is if you haven't experienced it?".

To me, what the "saying" is referring to is that having experienced "love" is worth the price of the pain of losing it. That you've gained more from the experience than you've lost. I'd have to say that's not true in all cases.

 

[Monique]

Originally posted by FUNKER
Originally posted by Monique
WHOA!
Experience the bad to appreciate the good? No, not my point of view at all.. I'd very happily go without experiencing the bad, thank you
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you obviously didnt understand what i said. If all you knew was a good day, you would not acknowledge it as a good day it would be a normality, therefore you would not be able to appreciate it. you require somethings opppsite to know what it is, a reference point. Its all relativity.

I can very well appreciate good days without having to have a bad day. The illusion of normality is quickly broken by taking a quick look at the real world. I've been in a very good relationship, I appreciate that person more than anything in the world and we never argued one day.

 

[Duderino]

Yeah Funker I guess there might be the good - bad thing going on but
who says its ever over?

 

[ShawnD]

Originally posted by FUNKER
you require somethings opppsite to know what it is, a reference point. Its all relativity.

Sometimes it's not worth knowing what the good is if you have to go through the bad.

I've never actually had a girlfriend myself and I've never had any problems with that. However, I have seen people around me just fall to pieces when love hits them the wrong way. A friend of mine was in a relationship with a girl he really liked but they had to break up because they never had time for each other. My friend didn't take that too well, he started going to the bar alone trying to pickup women (which is really sad) and his grades in school started falling because he couldn't stop thinking about his ex.
Another friend of mine has started to take interest in a girl who is in most of his classes. Although that relationship is still good, his concentration on trying to pass his classes is starting to go and he's starting to get C grades instead of his usual A grades. He's even been kicked out of the honors program (an honors degree basically allows you to go anywhere for graduate school).

So far I haven't seen love really help anybody around me. It only destroys people and their futures (like that honors degree)

 

[Blood Junkie]

Love?

The whole concept of it existing is ridiculous.

Don't bother debating.. I can't prove it doesn't exist, no one can prove it exists.. sort of like God. With time and a mind that allows all possibilities to exist, you will crawl out of this sissiness and realize.

 

[BLUE_CHIP]

Posted by Blood Junkie

Love?

The whole concept of it existing is ridiculous.

Don't bother debating.. I can't prove it doesn't exist, no one can prove it exists.. sort of like God. With time and a mind that allows all possibilities to exist, you will crawl out of this sissiness and realize.

What do you define as that sensation one gets when with a person that you have a very strong connection with?

Surley all human emotions are named so. For instance, tiredness is a bunch of neurological signals which we have given a name to.

Albeit a neurological function, I believe Love is something deeper. but if we were to debate that is gets into the whole "is there a soul" thing.

 

[motai]

Originally posted by Blood Junkie
Love?

The whole concept of it existing is ridiculous.

Certainly from the Terminator's point of view, "Why not? She is a healthy female of breeding age."

Originally posted by BLUE_CHIP
Albeit a neurological function, I believe Love is something deeper. but if we were to debate that is gets into the whole "is there a soul" thing.

Kinda like comparing prose works or fiction to poetry?

 

[FUNKER]

duderino, who says its over? well... it was the agreement,so both of us. but i kno where you are comin from
but "can you show me the way to the water fall?"

blood junkie, dude are you makin an attempt too be hard? you just look like a fool. just because no one can prove it doesn't mean it doesn't exsist, i feel sorry for you man. peace
ps: feel the love, hater

 

[Duderino]

I guess I did make myself not quite clear - but never mind
You will do what's right for you anyway...
aslong as you come around for a hug...

 

[FUNKER]

hugs not drugs, so i heard mullets are in

 

[hypnagogue]

Originally posted by Evo
To me, what the "saying" is referring to is that having experienced "love" is worth the price of the pain of losing it. That you've gained more from the experience than you've lost. I'd have to say that's not true in all cases.

To me it says that the positives and negatives from having loved and lost, taken as a whole, are preferable to the empty feeling of never having loved in the first place. It's not so much saying that loving and losing is always a net positive experience as it's saying that that's still better than never getting off the ground at all. From that standpoint I'd have to agree, given how I remember feeling when I was at that stage where I hadn't found anyone yet even though I desperately wanted to.

Reminds me of the epitaph of the fictional character George Gray from Spoon River Anthology by Edgar Lee Masters:

I have studied many times
The marble which was chiseled for me--
A boat with a furled sail at rest in a harbor.
In truth it pictures not my destination
But my life.
For love was offered me and I shrank from its disillusionment;
Sorrow knocked at my door, but I was afraid;
Ambition called to me, but I dreaded the chances.
Yet all the while I hungered for meaning in my life.
And now I know that we must lift the sail
And catch the winds of destiny
Wherever they drive the boat.
To put meaning in one's life may end in madness,
But life without meaning is the torture
Of restlessness and vague desire--
It is a boat longing for the sea and yet afraid.

 

[hypnagogue]

Originally posted by ShawnD
Sometimes it's not worth knowing what the good is if you have to go through the bad.

I've never actually had a girlfriend myself and I've never had any problems with that. However, I have seen people around me just fall to pieces when love hits them the wrong way. A friend of mine was in a relationship with a girl he really liked but they had to break up because they never had time for each other. My friend didn't take that too well, he started going to the bar alone trying to pickup women (which is really sad) and his grades in school started falling because he couldn't stop thinking about his ex.
Another friend of mine has started to take interest in a girl who is in most of his classes. Although that relationship is still good, his concentration on trying to pass his classes is starting to go and he's starting to get C grades instead of his usual A grades. He's even been kicked out of the honors program (an honors degree basically allows you to go anywhere for graduate school).

So far I haven't seen love really help anybody around me. It only destroys people and their futures (like that honors degree)

You speak as if the most important thing in life is an honor's degree. When I began falling for a girl who lived on my floor in sophomore year of college, the same thing happened to me. My grades fell badly. I followed a semester where I posted a 4.00 average with one where I dropped to 1.76, including failing outright a class that was in the core distribution of my major.

Well, guess what? It was easily worth it. I'm still with her, and I'm much happier now than I would have been if I killed my emotions in the name of getting higher numbers printed on a piece of paper. Even if I were to lose her tomorrow, the good times we've had easily outweigh whatever extra gratification I could get from better grades and possibly a better job. I would be a janitor if I had to be to stay with her. What goal in life is higher than love? None if you ask me.

 

[Monique]

A degree stays with you throughout your life, the feeling of being in love numbs after a while.. only if that love is meant to last it would be worth it.

 

[Evo]

Hypnagogue it sounds as though you have been lucky enough to be spared what a lot of people have gone through. You've never been betrayed by the one you love? You would not imagine what some of the people I know have been through.

If you were to marry this girl and have a child, then she had an affair and became pregnant by this other man, they emptied your life savings and moved out of state with your child. Would you still say it was all worth it? That happened to a co-worker.

Until you have suffered extreme pain, you won't understand.

 

[Njorl]

I'd have to agree with Hypnogogue, and I've been through a very nasty break-up. My first fiancee dumped me after living together for a year. It was right out of the blue, no explanation. One day shopping for rings, the next out the door.

Today, I consider it worth it, though afterwards I was drunk for 2 years and deeply depressed for 2 more. I look back now, and our time together was some of the best days of my life. I learned a lot about myself, and by loving her, learned how to love more fully. Now, had you asked me shortly after she dumped me, I'd have said, "Hell no!", but the pain fades away.

Loving is tough. If you get it right the first time it's truly amazing. I think it takes practice to get it right.

Njorl