Is it possible for "nothing" to exist

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In summary, the conversation discussed the concept of "nothing" and whether it is possible for there to be nothing in the universe. The definition of "nothing" was debated, with some arguing that even a vacuum contains particles and thus cannot be considered "nothing." The idea of there always being something in the universe according to the laws of physics was also brought up. The conversation ended with the thread being closed to prevent further speculation.
  • #1
KarminValso1724
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If there was nothing, would there still be dimensions of space and nothing in them or would there not be any dimensions of space at all.
 
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  • #3
'Nothing', according to Einstein is the 'lack of any ponderable properties'. This definition obviously lacks any contextual meaning.
 
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  • #4
You can in principle have a total vacuum devoid of all matter, although actually achieving that has not (I think) been done yet.
Such a vacuum could be contained within a container of a known size.
 
  • #5
rootone said:
You can in principle have a total vacuum devoid of all matter, although actually achieving that has not (I think) been done yet.
Such a vacuum could be contained within a container of a known size.

I don't think this can be what the OP meant by "nothing", since it obviously has dimensions of space because of the container. (Also, the container is obviously not "nothing".) However, the best thing would be for the OP himself to clarify what he meant.
 
  • #6
rootone said:
You can in principle have a total vacuum devoid of all matter, although actually achieving that has not (I think) been done yet.
Such a vacuum could be contained within a container of a known size.

Even a vacuum produces particles.
 
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  • #7
Kevin McHugh said:
Even a vacuum produces particles.
and radiation can exist in a vacuum too, was really waiting for the OP to define 'nothing', but no atoms would be a place to start.
 
  • #8
Kevin McHugh said:
Even a vacuum produces particles.
Vacuums also have geometry and curvature.
 
  • #9
It seems to me that QM forbids absolute nothing, wouldn't that contradict uncertainty?
 
  • #10
windy miller said:
QM forbids absolute nothing

Define "absolute nothing". The root issue here (which the OP's question also illustrates) is that you are throwing around ordinary language terms that do not have precise definitions. Questions framed in that manner do not have precise, well-defined answers.
 
  • #11
PeterDonis said:
Define "absolute nothing".

Would one way of looking at this be to ask just what do we know that does exists? E.g. mass, energy, fields, and space time? Is there anything that we know to exist or theorise to exist that falls outside of those 4 generic categories?
 
  • #12
rede96 said:
Would one way of looking at this be to ask just what do we know that does exists? E.g. mass, energy, fields, and space time? Is there anything that we know to exist or theorise to exist that falls outside of those 4 generic categories?
The laws themselves that govern those entities.
 
  • #13
newjerseyrunner said:
The laws themselves that govern those entities.

True, but those laws are only there because those entities exist. No entities no laws.
 
  • #14
Leonard Susskind, in one of his video lectures, said that the electric & magnetic fields cannot both be zero at the same time in the same place according to the HUP. Fields are something.
 
  • #15
rede96 said:
Would one way of looking at this be to ask just what do we know that does exists?

Not really. Read the OP question again. Suppose we have a definitive answer to your question--say, for concreteness, that the list you give is in fact the definitive list of "things we know exist". How would that help in answering the OP's question?
 
  • #16
anorlunda said:
Fields are something.

Ok, so how does this help in answering the OP's question?
 
  • #17
PeterDonis said:
Ok, so how does this help in answering the OP's question?

KarminValso1724 said:
If there was nothing, would there still be dimensions of space and nothing in them or would there not be any dimensions of space at all.

It refutes the OP's premise, " if there was nothing." In the universe that physics deals with, there is always something.
 
  • #18
anorlunda said:
Leonard Susskind, in one of his video lectures, said that the electric & magnetic fields cannot both be zero at the same time in the same place according to the HUP. Fields are something.

I would imagine that because the electromagnetic forces are caused by electrically charged objects that if you remove all those object there is no field, so not sure if that would apply in that case.
 
  • #19
rede96 said:
I would imagine that because the electromagnetic forces are caused by electrically charged objects that if you remove all those object there is no field, so not sure if that would apply in that case.

Photons don't require charged objects to exist.
 
  • #20
anorlunda said:
It refutes the OP's premise, " if there was nothing."

That depends on how the OP defines "nothing". Which is what I asked him to clarify. (For example, I could define "nothing" as "vacuum", in which case it is certainly possible for there to be nothing, and there would still be dimensions of space if there were nothing.)
 
  • #21
anorlunda said:
It refutes the OP's premise, " if there was nothing." In the universe that physics deals with, there is always something.

Thanks for that, that's pretty much how I was thinking. If we take away everything that physics deals with what is left? The question would therefore be are there any laws of physics that prevent that?
 
  • #22
anorlunda said:
Photons don't require charged objects to exist.

Yes of course, probably a bad example but was just trying to restate that if we took everything we know about away, then those laws don't apply.
 
  • #23
This thread is degenerating into the kind of speculation that my original question to the OP in post #2 was supposed to forestall. Thread closed.
 

FAQ: Is it possible for "nothing" to exist

1. Can "nothing" truly exist?

The concept of "nothing" is often debated among philosophers and scientists. Some argue that true "nothingness" is impossible because even empty space contains energy and fluctuations. Others believe that the absence of anything, including space and time, is possible but not observable by humans.

2. How can something come from nothing?

This is a common question related to the idea of the Big Bang theory, which suggests that the universe began as a singularity, or a point of infinite density and temperature. While it may seem counterintuitive, the laws of quantum mechanics allow for particles to spontaneously appear and disappear in a vacuum, suggesting that something can indeed come from nothing.

3. What existed before the universe?

This question is difficult to answer definitively because our understanding of time and space breaks down at the singularity of the Big Bang. Some theories suggest that time, space, and matter all came into existence simultaneously at the beginning of the universe, making the concept of "before" irrelevant.

4. Is the concept of "nothing" the same as "empty space"?

While they may seem similar, the concept of "nothing" goes beyond just empty space. It also includes the absence of particles, energy, and even time. Empty space, on the other hand, still contains energy and the potential for particles to appear and disappear.

5. Can "nothing" be created or destroyed?

This question is often asked in relation to the idea of a "creator" or the concept of a universe with a definite beginning and end. It is difficult to definitively answer this question as our understanding of "nothingness" is limited and constantly evolving. Some theories suggest that "nothing" is a fundamental state that cannot be created or destroyed, while others propose that it is possible for "nothing" to be created or destroyed through natural processes such as the Big Bang.

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