Is phi the Actual Angle on an Ellipse?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the parameterization of an ellipse in vector form and the interpretation of the parameter phi in relation to angles. Participants explore the implications of this parameterization, particularly whether phi represents an actual angle in the context of the ellipse's geometry.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents the vector form of an ellipse and derives a relationship that seems to imply a contradiction when comparing the tangent of phi to the ratio of the ellipse's axes.
  • Another participant argues that the parameter phi does not correspond to the polar coordinate angle theta unless the ellipse is a circle (a = b).
  • A participant emphasizes that the components of the ellipse in Cartesian coordinates are correctly defined, asserting that the tangent of phi should equal the ratio of y to x.
  • Another participant clarifies that phi is merely a parameter that generates points on the ellipse and does not represent an angle from the x-axis when connecting the point to the origin.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the interpretation of phi as an angle. Some maintain that phi can be treated as an angle in certain contexts, while others argue it is simply a parameter without direct angular significance.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the relationship between the parameter phi and actual angles in the context of the ellipse, as well as the implications of using Cartesian versus polar coordinates.

elegysix
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given an ellipse in vector form
r(phi)=a*cos(phi)i +b*sin(phi)j
where i and j are the unit vectors for x and y,
then y= b*sin(phi), and x = a*cos(phi).
tan(phi) = y / x ,
but y/x=(b/a)*tan(phi)
which implies 1 = b/a or b=a
which is false.

What is the deal?
doing the same for a circle leads to the true statement, 1=1.
 
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What is wrong is that in your parameterization:

r(phi)=a*cos(phi)i +b*sin(phi)j

the parameter phi is not equal to the polar coordinate angle theta unless a = b.
 
I never mentioned anything about polar coordinates, or its angle theta.
Since r is in cartesian components,
y must be equal to b*sin(\phi),
and x must be equal to a*cos(\phi), right?
and since they are perpendicular, they form a right triangle with r as the hypotenuse... then the tangent of that angle, tan(\phi) must equal y/x, no?
 
elegysix said:
I never mentioned anything about polar coordinates, or its angle theta.
Since r is in cartesian components,
y must be equal to b*sin(\phi),
and x must be equal to a*cos(\phi), right?
and since they are perpendicular, they form a right triangle with r as the hypotenuse... then the tangent of that angle, tan(\phi) must equal y/x, no?

phi is a parameter, not an actual angle. That is, if you choose a certain value for phi, you'll get a point (x,y) that's on the ellipse. However, if you actually plot this point and connect it to (0,0), the resulting line is NOT at an angle phi from the x-axis. There's no reason it should be, since phi is an arbitrarily picked value.
 

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