Is the Bohr Model of the atom truly feasible given electron acceleration?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of the Bohr Model of the atom, particularly in light of electron acceleration and the implications of electromagnetic radiation (EMR) emitted by electrons. Participants explore theoretical aspects, conceptual understanding, and the transition to quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the Bohr Model, suggesting that if electrons are always accelerating, they should emit EMR and eventually crash into the nucleus.
  • Another participant counters that electrons are better described as wavefunctions, which do not radiate energy while in stable orbitals.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes that the electron's wavefunction represents a probability amplitude, and stability arises from time-invariant wavefunctions in certain energy levels.
  • Some participants discuss the distinction between the Bohr Model and Rutherford's planetary model, noting that while the Bohr Model is incomplete, it was a significant advancement in understanding atomic structure.
  • One participant elaborates on the effective potential energy in atomic systems, explaining that the stability of electron orbits is due to the minimum potential energy at specific distances from the nucleus.
  • There is mention of the excitation and de-excitation processes of electrons, which involve absorption and emission of photons, further complicating the understanding of electron behavior in atoms.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity and implications of the Bohr Model. While some acknowledge its historical significance, others challenge its feasibility based on electron behavior and energy emission. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various models and theories, including quantum mechanics and the Standard Model, but do not reach a consensus on the implications of electron acceleration in the context of the Bohr Model. There are also mentions of potential confusion between different atomic models and the complexities of electron interactions.

  • #31
GodsChild086 said:
Okay, thanks! Oh, I get what you're saying about the electrons now.

P.S. I don't even know how I came up with the idea of electrons crashing into the nucleus when they emit EMR. It just sort of came to mind one day as I was thinking about it becaue of the great amount of energy electrons give off as they emit EMR. I'm going to see if I can get that book you're talking about at my local library or something.

The idea was viable and correct;happily we found that laws of classical electrodynamics do not apply at quantum/microscopical level,that's all.Those electrons don't emit radiation when the atom is stable and isolated from external interractions,as they should according to classical emectrodynamics.
Even these days people wonder how could the brilliant mind of Sir Ernest Rutherford came up with such a dumb idea...
 
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  • #32
So let me get this straight...the reason why the electrons (well atoms) would NOT crash into the nucleus when they emit EMR is because most atoms are very stable. (Just remembering something about atoms from Chemistry.)
 
  • #33
dextercioby I wouldn't say it was a massive step from his particle scattering experiments, though it would have been interesting to work in Rutherfords lab during his time(P.s. I did my degree at the University of Manchester i.e. where rutherford did his work, lol they have a lecture theatre named after him nowadays)

He must of thought (along with Bohr) that is the mass is centered (i.e. in the nucleus) then the only sensible way of thinking about the movement of electrons is in fixed circular orbits. The big step for Bohr was to suggest that they won't radiate energy as they circle the nucleus, this is a big departure from classical electromagnetic theory (as said).
 
  • #34
loandbehold said:
Not really. Surely if l=0 then you just have the -1/r term, which diverges to minus infinity at r=0, not at r=1.

Well keep in mind that we are discussing electrons that ORBIT around a nucleus...The Bohr model clearly states that L = n \hbar for n = 1,2,3... So the value l = 0 (L =0 ) describes the attraction between two non-orbiting particles...


Also keep in mind that the Bohr-radius is calculated as that radius at which the probability of findinf the electron in its ground state is maximal...

regards
marlon
 
  • #35
So let me get something else straight...

I forgot that in Physics 20 I learned something about strong and weak nuclear forces. So is it the strong nuclear force that holds those electrons in orbit so that they don't go crashing into the nucleus?
 
  • #36
GodsChild086 said:
So let me get something else straight...

I forgot that in Physics 20 I learned something about strong and weak nuclear forces. So is it the strong nuclear force that holds those electrons in orbit so that they don't go crashing into the nucleus?

No,the strong interraction only occurs at distances of about 10^-15 m (one fermi),while the electromagnetic interaction is responsable for the atom stability and it is universal,that means it occurs at any distance;the key is that electrons in atoms have close to zero probability of coming to within one fermi of the nucleus.They're most probably found at distances of Angstrom order (10^-10 m) which is 100000 times larger than the typical nuclear distance.
Going deeper into QFT,we say that electrons are leptons that do not "feel" the strong interraction.

Daniel.
 
  • #37
The strong force holds baryons and mesons together, while the residual strong force will hold atomic nuclei together... Atoms are held together by electromagnetic interactions between the nucleus and the surrounding electrons. Also the angular momentum of the electrons contributes to this interaction...

regards
marlon
 

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