Is the equivalent lens of two such that f_1+f_2<h divergent?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of two thin lenses in combination, specifically examining the conditions under which the equivalent lens is divergent. Participants explore the implications of the focal lengths of the lenses and their separation distance.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a formula for the equivalent focal length of two thin lenses and suggests that if both lenses are convergent and their focal lengths satisfy the condition \(f_1 + f_2 < h\), then the equivalent lens should be divergent.
  • Another participant questions the initial claim and requests a source for the assertion regarding the focal lengths and separation distance.
  • A third participant references an external source that illustrates a scenario where two lenses separated by a distance greater than the sum of their focal lengths produce a real, erect image, which challenges the initial claim.
  • A fourth participant proposes an alternative condition, suggesting that the equivalent lens may be divergent if \(f_1 + f_2 > h\), indicating that the arrangement of the lenses affects the nature of the image formed.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; multiple competing views regarding the conditions for divergence of the equivalent lens remain unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the assumptions made regarding the arrangement and properties of the lenses, as well as the dependence on specific definitions of divergence and image formation.

crick
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The focal of the lens equivalent of two thin lens at distance h is
$$1/f=1/f_1+1/f_2+h/(f_1 f_2)$$

Therefore, supposing that ##f_1>0## and ##f_2>0## (both lenses are convergent), if ##f_1+f_2 <h## then the equivalent lens should be divergent.

Nevertheless consider the example in picture
11.png


The two lenses have focals such that ##f_1+f_2 <h## but the image is real, i.e. the equivalent lens cannot be divergent. I understood the ray diagram, but how can this hold true?
 
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crick said:
Therefore, supposing that f1>0f1>0f_1>0 and f2>0f2>0f_2>0 (both lenses are convergent), if f1+f2<hf1+f2<hf_1+f_2
Can you quote the source for this claim?
 
Check out Fig. 5.30 here: http://engineering.tufts.edu/bme/people/georgakoudi/EN31Lab4ThinLensCombinations.pdf

It shows two thin lenses separated by a distance greater than the sum of their focal lengths and a real, erect image.
 
Maybe the condition for the equivalent lens to be diverging is ##f_1+f_2 >h## . In that case, f1 is to the right of f2 in your diagram. A real image formed by the first lens will be within a focal length of the second lens and the result will be a virtual image.
 

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