Is theory of measurement an oxymoron?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of measurement in physics, particularly in the context of quantum mechanics. Participants explore whether the theory of measurement is inherently contradictory or if it can be meaningfully defined within theoretical and mathematical physics. The conversation touches on philosophical implications and the distinction between scientific and philosophical problems related to measurement.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Philosophical inquiry

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that measurement is defined by physicists in practical settings, suggesting that theoretical discussions may lack relevance.
  • Others highlight the measurement problem in quantum mechanics, noting conflicting interpretations of measurement as an axiom versus measurement as an interaction.
  • It is proposed that the variability in understanding the measurement problem indicates it is more philosophical than scientific.
  • Some participants assert that while the need for a quantum theory of gravity is a philosophical question, the search for such a theory is scientific.
  • There are claims that the lack of a precise definition for measurement processes suggests a philosophical rather than a scientific nature to the problem.
  • Contrasting views suggest that the measurement problem is indeed a physical issue, as it cannot be distinctly defined from other physical interactions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of opinions on whether the measurement problem is scientific or philosophical, with no consensus reached. Some view it as a philosophical issue, while others argue for its physical significance.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the ambiguity in defining measurement processes and the implications of this ambiguity for both theoretical and practical physics. The discussion reflects varying interpretations and the complexity of the measurement problem without resolving these complexities.

  • #31
Hmmm it looks like, nature doesn't actually consist of quantum systems but rather uses the quantum math for self-organizing - so our childish approach "What's it made of?" gets stuck in a contradiction.
 
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  • #32
Elias1960 said:
There was the monstrous moonshine conjecture, also known as 196884 = 196883 + 1.

Essentially, it was nothing but the hypothesis that there is some deep connection between the j-function from number theory and the Monster group.
At that time it was just that it wasn't mathematics but just a piece of data coupled with a philosophy of what it might possibly mean.
 
Last edited:
  • #33
No! It was actually very precise.
Elias1960 said:
There was the monstrous moonshine conjecture, also known as 196884 = 196883 + 1.

Essentially, it was nothing but the hypothesis that there is some deep connection between the j-function from number theory and the Monster group. Vague enough?
 
  • #34
If there are no particles as such, there are no discrete things per se(in and of themselves). How can measurement be an oxymoron if measurement is fundamental to the nature of said discrete things? This is bad philosophy.
 

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