Is there a material or an element that can repel hydrogen?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the question of whether there exists a material or element capable of repelling hydrogen specifically, distinct from other substances like water or oxygen. Participants explore theoretical and practical aspects of hydrogen behavior, containment, and separation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the possibility of repelling hydrogen, noting that neutral hydrogen typically exists as a gas and does not behave like liquids, making it challenging to contain.
  • Another participant suggests that hydrogen atoms are electrically neutral and cannot be influenced by a uniform electric field, although they may experience repulsion at low speeds when interacting with other atoms.
  • References to a study are shared, but the relevance to the original question is unclear, prompting a request for clarification from the original poster.
  • Discussion includes the potential utility of palladium membranes for separating hydrogen from oxygen or water, with some participants noting the importance of pressure and hole size in this context.
  • One participant mentions that hydrogen is soluble in palladium, which could have implications for hydrogen storage and chemical bond breaking, although immense pressure may still be necessary.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the feasibility of repelling hydrogen and the effectiveness of various materials for hydrogen separation. No consensus is reached regarding the original question or the proposed ideas.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of hydrogen behavior, including its interactions with materials and the conditions required for effective separation or containment. Specific parameters such as pressure and membrane characteristics are noted as critical but remain unresolved.

Maija Brandt
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I’m working on an idea that I have, and I was wondering if there was something that could repel hydrogen. Not water, not oxygen, just hydrogen. Thanks!
 
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I don't believe so. Neutral hydrogen is usually bound with another atom of itself in a gaseous state, so it doesn't act like a liquid and bead up like water does. It just bounces around like all gas molecules do. In case you were actually asking about containing hydrogen in a container, just know that hydrogen is extremely difficult to contain due to its small size. It will slowly leak out of just about any container.
 
Maija Brandt said:
I’m working on an idea that I have, and I was wondering if there was something that could repel hydrogen. Not water, not oxygen, just hydrogen. Thanks!
Hydrogen cannot pass easily through a solid surface but, given time, it will leak through a thin balloon membrane.
Hydrogen atoms (and all other atoms) are electrically neutral so they cannot be moved (attracted or repelled) by a uniform Electric Field. Slow moving H atoms will be repelled when they meet up with another atom at slow speed because the fields around atoms are not uniform (simple non-quantum model). If they are fast enough (e.g. a hot gas) they can have enough energy to overcome the repulsion and they can form a molecule with the other atom. H + H → H2 is an example.
 
Bystander said:
https://www.hindawi.com/journals/amse/2014/438216/
Which particular bit of that reference could help us with this? I started on it but life's too short.

Also, perhaps the OP could expand a bit on the question and what the "idea" involves.
 
The Pd membrane might be useful for "sorting" hydrogen from oxygen/water.
 
Bystander said:
The Pd membrane might be useful for "sorting" hydrogen from oxygen/water.
Very high pressure and very small holes can produce surprising effects (as with reverse osmosis filtering of water) so I guess it might work. The actual numbers involved (dimensions of holes and pressure) would be very relevant.
 
sophiecentaur said:
Very high pressure and very small holes
Not necessary, really; hydrogen is quite "soluble" in palladium.
 
Bystander said:
Not necessary, really; hydrogen is quite "soluble" in palladium.
Oh yes, of course - H2 storage for vehicles. PF is just great for fresh ideas injected into threads and for reminding us of stuff that's buried somewhere deep in memory.
I wonder whether that would help in breaking chemical bonds and producing H2 directly (from H2O or other compounds, instead of using Electrolysis first. It would still require immense pressure, I think.
 
  • #10
sophiecentaur said:
PF is just great for fresh ideas injected into threads and for reminding us of stuff that's buried somewhere deep in memory.
..., or, for recalling the Pons/Fleischman fiasco.
 
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