Is there an alternative method to solve this problem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the force on a piston in a cylinder using given torque and geometric parameters. Participants explore various mathematical approaches and techniques to arrive at the solution, while also questioning the methods used by others.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Casio presents an initial calculation for the force on the piston (Fp) using trigonometric relationships derived from a force diagram, arriving at a value of 3933 N.
  • Casio notes a discrepancy with the expected solution of 3935 N, suggesting the possibility of alternative methods or techniques.
  • Sudharaka questions the equivalence of lengths PC and PM in Casio's calculations, seeking clarification on the methodology used.
  • Casio later confirms that the calculator was set to degrees, not radians, and mentions having worked out a full solution to the problem.
  • Casio provides updated calculations for various lengths and forces, including a refined value for Fp of approximately 3935.1 N, while also exploring additional parameters related to the cylinder.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the methods used for calculations, with some questioning specific steps. There is no consensus on the best approach or the accuracy of the results, as multiple viewpoints and calculations are presented.

Contextual Notes

Some calculations depend on the correct interpretation of angles and the use of trigonometric functions, with potential implications for the accuracy of the results. The discussion reflects varying levels of confidence in the methods employed.

Casio1
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With reference to the Force Diagram, which represents a single piston cylinder rotating and producing 26NM of torque.

The technical data given is;

I = 70mm
r = 18mm
T = 26Nm
Theta = 17.13 degress
Phi = 4.34 degress

Using the diagram calculate the force on the piston Fp at 1mm before TDC.

Interestingly I can't solve this using the above data, but using trig in conjunction with the above I calculated the following angles;

Triangle OMC

M = 85.66 degress
O = 72.87 degrees
C = 21.47 degress

I worked it out like this;

PC = 18(sin 17.13) / (sin 4.34) = PM = I = 70.06 mm

The length (I) has now been proven.

Using the sine rule;

OM = 18(sin 21.47) / (sin 85.66) = 6.61

Force on piston Fp = 26 / 6.61 x 1000 = 3933 N

Once you follow it through you will see that I have not used much of the original data to solve the problem, but I am thinking there is an alternative method because I am to believe that the actual solution is

Fp = 3935 N

Although it is only two Newtons difference I could be using the wrong techniques?
 

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Hi Casio, :)

Casio said:
PC = 18(sin 17.13) / (sin 4.34) = PM = I = 70.06 mm

How did you equate PC and PM?

Kind Regards,
Sudharaka.
 
Sudharaka said:
Hi Casio, :)
How did you equate PC and PM?

Kind Regards,
Sudharaka.

Building on that, did you have your calculator set to use degrees and not radians?
 
Sudharaka said:
Hi Casio, :)
How did you equate PC and PM?

Kind Regards,
Sudharaka.

Hi Sudharaka:)

Thanks for replying to the thread, I have worked out a full solution now to the problem, so will post it soon.

Kind regards

Casio
 
Ackbach said:
Building on that, did you have your calculator set to use degrees and not radians?

Hi Ackbach,

I didn't adjust the calculator to radians as the unit measurements were given in degress, but I have solved it and will post full solution soon.

Kind regards

Casio
 
Sorry for not replying earlier:D

I have worked on the problem and this is what I have now calculated.

With reference to the force diagram, which should be drawn as a rectangle to find the angles required.

The length of OM is;

OM = r 18(sin21.47) / (sin 85.66) = 6.6072mm

The length of "I" is calculated as;

I = PC = 18(sin 17.13) / (sin 4.34) = 70.0594 mm

The length OP is calculated as;

OP = Sqrt PC^2 - OM^2 = 70.0594^2 - 6.6072^2 = Sqrt 4856 = 69.69mm

Length of OP = OC + OP = 18 + 69.69 = 87.69mm

Force Fp = (r x F x sin(158.53))

Fp = T / r (sin 158.53) = 26 / 6.5883 = 26K / 6.5883 = 3946.4N

The compoent force acting on the piston is calculated from;

Fc = cos 4.34 = (3946.4 x cos (4.34)) = 3935.1N

I have moved on from this now and also calculated other areas like;

Diameter of the cylinder, area of the cylinder, swept volume of the cylinder, clearance colume of the cylinder, compression ratio of the cylinder, and the compression pressure:)

Casio:cool:
 

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