Is V=Blv the Key to Proving the Equation V=Blv?

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter jsmith613
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the equation V=Blv, specifically in the context of proving its validity through the relationship between induced electromotive force (emf), work done by an applied force, and energy conservation principles. Participants explore the dynamics of a rod moving in a magnetic field and the forces acting on it, examining the interplay between mechanical work and electrical energy production.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes the scenario where a rod moves in a magnetic field, inducing an emf and experiencing a magnetic force that opposes the applied force, leading to a state of equilibrium.
  • Another participant questions the assumption that the work done by the applied force and the electrical energy produced are not equal, suggesting that the rod is not accelerating and the forces are balanced.
  • A different participant acknowledges a misunderstanding about the forces at play, clarifying that the applied force moves the rod while the magnetic force opposes it, and emphasizes that the magnetic field induces the emf.
  • Participants discuss the idea that the same quantity can be calculated in different ways, either through the induced emf or directly using the magnetic field, leading to the same result.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between the work done by the applied force and the electrical energy produced. While some suggest they are equal due to the equilibrium of forces, others question this equivalence, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

There are assumptions regarding the definitions of work, energy, and the conditions under which the rod moves at constant speed. The discussion does not resolve whether the work done by the applied force is indeed equal to the energy dissipated by the current.

jsmith613
Messages
609
Reaction score
0
when proving the equation V=Blv (V = emf induced) my book says

"Consider the arrangement shown in the attachment. The rod moves as a result of the applied force and an emf is induced, causing electrons to flow round in a circuit.
However, the the rod is now a 'current carrying rod' in a magnetic field so feels a magnetic force opposing the applied force.

To move at a constant speed, the applied Force must be the same as the magnetic force.
Hence F(applied force)=BIl
As the rod is moving at a constand speed the work done by the applied force is equal to: W=F*d
Work done = BIl*vt"

So for this all makes sense. The next bit is confusing.
Electrical energy is produced from the work done (this I understand). When an emf produces a current for time t, the electrical energy produced = Iet (E = emf)"
This also makes sense!

Hence Iet (e = emf) = BIl*vt
Why is this true...apparently it has something to do with energy conservation but surely the work done by the force is not the same as the energy disappated by the current?

Thanks
 

Attachments

  • Force.png
    Force.png
    2.9 KB · Views: 2,039
Physics news on Phys.org
My question is: why would you think they're not equal? The rod is not accelerating anymore. The magnetic field is trying to accelerate it, but all the work it does is being dissipated. It's this equilibrium that keeps the rod moving at a constant speed (instead of speeding up or slowing down).
 
Muphrid said:
My question is: why would you think they're not equal? The rod is not accelerating anymore. The magnetic field is trying to accelerate it, but all the work it does is being dissipated. It's this equilibrium that keeps the rod moving at a constant speed (instead of speeding up or slowing down).

but the eVt is NOT doing work on the rod (there is an external force doing work on the rod)?
 
Ah, I see, I misunderstood the situation. It's an applied force moving the rod and a magnetic force opposing the motion. Fair enough.

The point is that the magnetic field is responsible for the EMF: you're calculating the same quantity in two different ways--one in terms of the EMF induced by the magnetic field, and the other by just using the magnetic field directly. They're two different routes to getting the same result.
 
Muphrid said:
Ah, I see, I misunderstood the situation. It's an applied force moving the rod and a magnetic force opposing the motion. Fair enough.

The point is that the magnetic field is responsible for the EMF: you're calculating the same quantity in two different ways--one in terms of the EMF induced by the magnetic field, and the other by just using the magnetic field directly. They're two different routes to getting the same result.

oh i see..thanks
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
3K
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
  • · Replies 42 ·
2
Replies
42
Views
4K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K