Isothermal Expansion of Water/Moving Boundary

AI Thread Summary
In a closed, rigid system filled with water, moving one boundary to increase volume can lead to a rapid drop in internal pressure, potentially creating a cavity filled with water vapor, but the pressure on all boundaries will not exceed atmospheric pressure. The concept resembles a suction cup, where the goal is to exert a force on the skin by manipulating water pressure. Concerns about cavitation arise, especially since the cavitation pressure is lower than the equilibrium vapor pressure of water. To achieve a pressure drop of about 50 kPa, a piston would need to move approximately 7.2 mm in a specified cylinder size, which is feasible with modern servos. Understanding these dynamics is crucial for modeling the system effectively and ensuring it operates without cavitation issues.
WeirdWater
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
Hello all,

I've been wondering how water reacts in a closed, rigid system with one moving boundary. Assuming the system is perfectly filled with water, and one side of the boundary moves (increasing the volume), how does this affect the pressure in the system?

Since water is incompressible, I would think that moving one boundary would dramatically increase the pressure on the other boundaries within the container (since the water attempts to maintain its original volume). However, I don't get how to modify the formulas for Bulk Modulus to prove this is true.

I want to create a water-filled probe that rests on the skin and then move a boundary of that probe to raise the skin. In my mind, this should act much like a reverse hydraulic lift, forcing the skin to lift as the other boundary is drawn away. However, I don't know this with certainty and I don't get how to show this relation in exact, quantitative terms. I would appreciate any help that could be provided in modelling this system to be as realistic as possible.

Thanks for your help!
 
Science news on Phys.org
The system is subject to some external pressure, usually atmospheric. Initially, the internal pressure may be taken equal to the external. As the volume starts to expand,the internal pressure will start dropping off very rapidly, because water's volume does not change much under pressure, and at same stage a cavity will form there. The cavity will not be completely evacuated, it will contain water vapor. The pressure on all the boundaries will never exceed the external (atmospheric) pressure.

If I understand your description correctly, what you are thinking about is basically a suction cup. It could be somewhat more efficient than a typical suction cup, but not in a major way.
 
So then I do need to worry about cavitation? The maximum force I was hoping to exert on the skin is about 7N, or an internal pressure about 50kPa below atmospheric, so I had hoped that moving the boundary could accomplish this. Is there a way I could do this effectively with a linear servo as the drive and then have the skin directly acted on by the water pressure while avoiding cavitation?

Since the cavitation pressure of water is lower than its equilibrium vapor pressure (~3kPa), I thought there wouldn't be cavitation unless the system featured significant cavitation nuclei?
 
Water's bulk modulus is 2.2 GPa, which is quite high. That means you the pressure vessel must be quite large, so that even a low-precision servo could do it. Let's say the vessel contains one liter = 0.001 m^3 of water. Then the change in the volume is 2.3E-8 m^3. If your vessel has, say, a 10-mm long, 1-mm radius cylinder, then a piston would need to move 7.2 mm in that cylinder to create a 50 kPa pressure drop. I think this is quite achievable with modern servos.
 
I need to calculate the amount of water condensed from a DX cooling coil per hour given the size of the expansion coil (the total condensing surface area), the incoming air temperature, the amount of air flow from the fan, the BTU capacity of the compressor and the incoming air humidity. There are lots of condenser calculators around but they all need the air flow and incoming and outgoing humidity and then give a total volume of condensed water but I need more than that. The size of the...
I was watching a Khan Academy video on entropy called: Reconciling thermodynamic and state definitions of entropy. So in the video it says: Let's say I have a container. And in that container, I have gas particles and they're bouncing around like gas particles tend to do, creating some pressure on the container of a certain volume. And let's say I have n particles. Now, each of these particles could be in x different states. Now, if each of them can be in x different states, how many total...
Thread 'Why work is PdV and not (P+dP)dV in an isothermal process?'
Let's say we have a cylinder of volume V1 with a frictionless movable piston and some gas trapped inside with pressure P1 and temperature T1. On top of the piston lay some small pebbles that add weight and essentially create the pressure P1. Also the system is inside a reservoir of water that keeps its temperature constant at T1. The system is in equilibrium at V1, P1, T1. Now let's say i put another very small pebble on top of the piston (0,00001kg) and after some seconds the system...
Back
Top