It's a vicious circle.Why do people commit mass shootings?

[drankin]

Does not Massachusetts have any gun laws? It is one of the most uptight places in the world. I would guess several gun laws were broken that day even if it was an accident. Why not enforce the law?

Not likely that this would have prevented the attack.

 

[zoobyshoe]

and 19 year old girls will act erratically after accidentally shooting a relative.

The bizarre implication here is that 19 year old girls accidentally shoot their relatives pretty frequently.

The whole thing preceeding the shooting was pretty erratic. Her father had bought the shotgun a year before in response to a burglary, but she said she was afraid of it. The father and brother knew how to operate it: they were members of a gun club. YET, instead of asking one of them for instruction, she got it out and decided to teach herself how to load it. (It is noted that she had just had some kind of argument with her father. We have to wonder what it was about and if it had any bearing on her deciding to figure out how to load the gun. At any rate, she's suddenly no longer afraid of it, and even willing to figure out how to use it without instruction.) She gets it loaded, then, while trying to unload it, it goes off. Instead of leaving it alone and going to get her brother to sort it out, she carries this loaded, apparently unstable, gun downstairs. All pretty erratic.

This stuff might sound suspicious to CSI wannabees, but it's nothing out of the ordinary in the real world of law enforcement.

You are involved in the real world of law enforcement?

It's amazing how many people have come out of the woodwork to badmouth this woman. The idea that she was a bad teacher because some nursing student was too lazy to read the textbook is laughable.

Cronxeh's link to the "Rate Your Teacher" site demonstrates that a fair quantity of bad reviews of her preceeded the shooting. Despite that, she got good reviews, and was recommended by, the majority of those posting there. The thing to bear in mind is that there was something problematic enough about her that she was denied tenure.

Another thing to bear in mind is that after "accidentally" having shot her brother, she did not swear off guns, but somehow sought and procured an unregistered handgun.

 

[Proton Soup]

working on a "personnel board", i imagine you'd get to know all sorts of things that other people don't want known

 

[Count Iblis]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Zinkhan"

 

[Moonbear]

3 shots out of a shotgun and ruled an accident? You've got to be kidding me.

You can accidentally fire one shot, but three? I tell you what, i'll get the gallows ready right now.

A flogging following Moses' law in the morning, and a hanging at lunch!

I hadn't heard it was three, but did hear it was more than once. And just heard about the pip bomb incident too. Something is VERY fishy about this whole situation that neither of those prior incidents landed her in prison before this last shooting.

 

[Brian_C]

The bizarre implication here is that 19 year old girls accidentally shoot their relatives pretty frequently.

A quick google search shows dozens of accidental shootings in just the past month, many of them involving teenagers. It is not unusual at all.

If the shotgun in question was an automatic, it wouldn't be difficult to accidentally fire it multiple times. She could have panicked, assumed she was going to jail, and tried to make a getaway. None of this proves that she intended to shoot her brother.

 

[MotoH]

A quick google search shows dozens of accidental shootings in just the past month, many of them involving teenagers. It is not unusual at all.

If the shotgun in question was an automatic, it wouldn't be difficult to accidentally fire it multiple times. She could have panicked, assumed she was going to jail, and tried to make a getaway. None of this proves that she intended to shoot her brother.

There are no fully automatic shotguns for civilian use. Even a semi automatic it is unfathomable to accidentally shoot three times.

 

[Brian_C]

Why is that unfathomable? It would be very easy to discharge the gun accidentally if it has a light trigger pull. There have been cases of inexperienced shooters injuring themselves because they kept their finger on the trigger while carrying or holstering the gun.

 

[Proton Soup]

A quick google search shows dozens of accidental shootings in just the past month, many of them involving teenagers. It is not unusual at all.

If the shotgun in question was an automatic, it wouldn't be difficult to accidentally fire it multiple times. She could have panicked, assumed she was going to jail, and tried to make a getaway. None of this proves that she intended to shoot her brother.

yeah, accidental shootings are common. how common is going on the run and aiming at other people ? I'm thinking that would be fairly common for non-accidental shootings.

 

[MotoH]

Why is that unfathomable? It would be very easy to discharge the gun accidentally if it has a light trigger pull. There have been cases of inexperienced shooters injuring themselves because they kept their finger on the trigger while carrying or holstering the gun.

I am not sure if you have ever shot a gun before, but if this were an accidental shooting, there would have been only one shot. the recoil would have knocked the gun right out of her hands if she was supposedly learning how to unload the gun.

 

[drankin]

Why is that unfathomable? It would be very easy to discharge the gun accidentally if it has a light trigger pull. There have been cases of inexperienced shooters injuring themselves because they kept their finger on the trigger while carrying or holstering the gun.

She also accidently kept it pointed at her brother. To control a semi-auto shotgun and maintain a target is hard enough.

 

[Dr Transport]

As a graduate of UAH, this is just another incidence of the universities poor judgment in hiring faculty members, not 6 months ago the former Physics department chair was convicted of murdering his wife.

http://blog.al.com/live/2009/10/professor_uah_murder.html

These were the worst, but other poor decisions (my opinion) have been made in other cases regarding tenure etc...

 

[Borek]

I wonder if this particular decision about tenure was right or not. It all depends on the point of view - it was right, you don't want someone like that on campus, it was wrong, you don't want shooting on campus.

 

[elect_eng]

I wonder if this particular decision about tenure was right or not. It all depends on the point of view - it was right, you don't want someone like that on campus, it was wrong, you don't want shooting on campus.

Interesting thought. Let's give all psychopaths tenure postions at Universities. Maybe. ... It's cheaper than jail, and perhaps torturing students is enough of a thrill to keep them from killing people.

Hmmm, I like it.

 

[zoobyshoe]

and 19 year old girls will act erratically after accidentally shooting a relative.

The bizarre implication here is that 19 year old girls accidentally shoot their relatives pretty frequently.

A quick google search shows dozens of accidental shootings in just the past month, many of them involving teenagers. It is not unusual at all.

You specified 19 year old girls. Link me to all the accidental shootings of relatives by 19 year old girls in the United States in the past month. Exclude anything still under investigation.

Do it for the whole past year if you like. Then get me a reliable estimate of how many 19 year old girls there were in the United States at any given time in the last year. The percentage of 19 year old girls who accidentally shot relatives will be so tiny that the statement "It's not at all unusual for a 19 year old girl to accidentally shoot a relative" will be seen to be bogus. You didn't dispute that's what you were implying, so I guess you want to stand by that implication.

 

[ideasrule]

Do we have confirmation that the shotgun was fired 3 times?

 

[zoobyshoe]

She also accidently kept it pointed at her brother. To control a semi-auto shotgun and maintain a target is hard enough.

You need to read the story carefully and keep strict track of what everyone said:

She said she got the gun and loaded shells into it, but was unable to get them out. Anderson said that while she was attempting to unload the weapon on her bed, it went off. She then took it downstairs to ask for help in unloading it. She asked her brother, she said, and he told her to point the gun up instead of carrying it beside her leg. Her brother was walking across the kitchen between her and her mother, she said. She started to raise the gun, and "someone said something to her," she recalled in the report. She turned and the gun went off.

That's from the big chunk of news story I quoted in post #87

 

[Evo]

This seems to confirm the 3 shots.

But current Braintree police Chief Paul Frazier questions how the investigation was handled. Frazier said Amy Bishop also fired once into a wall before hitting her brother, then fired a third time into the ceiling.

An auto mechanic who worked at a dealership near Bishop's home in 1986 told The Boston Globe that Bishop ran in after shooting her brother, waved a gun and demanded a getaway car.

I'm no gun expert, but I would assume that she'd have to be holding that gun with at least one finger on the trigger in order for her to "accidently" fire it. So, you have a person that is supposedly afraid of guns, then "accidently" shoots it once, yet continues to carry the gun with her finger on the trigger while she's supposedly taking it to ask her mother how to unload it? Wouldn't the first reaction be to keep your hand away from the trigger? Just doesn't sound right.

Here's the latest on the shooting.

HUNTSVILLE, Ala. – A professor who survived a deadly university shooting rampage said the colleague charged in the attack methodically shot her victims in the head until the gun apparently jammed and she was pushed out of the room.

Ng said the meeting had been going on for about half an hour when Amy Bishop "got up suddenly, took out a gun and started shooting at each one of us. She started with the one closest to her and went down the row shooting her targets in the head."

Ng, the professor who survived, said all six of those shot were on one side of an oval table.

"The remaining 5 including myself were on the other side of the table (and) immediately dropped to the floor," he wrote.

Ng told the AP the shooting stopped almost as soon as it started. He said the gun seemed to jam and he and others rushed Bishop out of the room and then barricaded the door shut with a table.

Ng said the charge was led by Debra Moriarity, a professor of biochemistry, after Bishop aimed the gun at her and attempted to fire. When the gun didn't shoot, Moriarity pushed her way to Bishop, urged her to stop, and then helped force her out the door.

"Moriarity was probably the one that saved our lives. She was the one that initiated the rush," he told the AP. "It took a lot of guts to just go up to her."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100216/ap_on_re_us/us_ala_university_shooting

 

[Jimmy Snyder]

On the bright side, there should be increased enrollment in physics programs in the future.

 

[Borek]

The percentage of 19 year old girls who accidentally shot relatives will be so tiny that the statement "It's not at all unusual for a 19 year old girl to accidentally shoot a relative" will be seen to be bogus.

I think you are trying to address something different then Brain_C stated:

19 year old girls will act erratically after accidentally shooting a relative. This stuff might sound suspicious to CSI wannabees, but it's nothing out of the ordinary in the real world of law enforcement.

As I understand it, he was not referring to the general population, but to the population of people that police has to deal with. That's not the same situation.

Note: I am not stating you are wrong or he is wrong, I just think you don't talk the same case.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

When her gun jammed they forced her out the door? I probably would have killed her with my bare hands.

 

[edpell]

When her gun jammed they forced her out the door? I probably would have killed her with my bare hands.

It is not clear where the gun was at the point that they pushed her out of the room. I for myself would not want to wrestle with a person with a gun. I would be happy to push them out the door and barricade the door.

 

[Evo]

It is not clear where the gun was at the point that they pushed her out of the room. I for myself would not want to wrestle with a person with a gun. I would be happy to push them out the door and barricade the door.

The gun was in her hand

Ng said the charge was led by Debra Moriarity, a professor of biochemistry, after Bishop aimed the gun at her and attempted to fire. When the gun didn't shoot, Moriarity pushed her way to Bishop, urged her to stop, and then helped force her out the door.

 

[rootX]

So, they forced her out of the door along with her gun before the shooting occurred (and called 911)? In most cases I believe people try to subdue the person before anything else.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

It is not clear where the gun was at the point that they pushed her out of the room. I for myself would not want to wrestle with a person with a gun. I would be happy to push them out the door and barricade the door.

...so that she could possibly continue on her rampage? That aside, I don't know if I could control my emotions at that point. My life has been threatened a few times. Once I was held at gunpoint [actually, I was kidnapped at gunpoint]. When a person's life is threatened, the animal instincts often emerge.

 

[Astronuc]

So, they forced her out of the door along with her gun before the shooting occurred (and called 911)?

She shot 3 colleagues. She attempted to shoot a 4th, but the gun jammed/misfired. The 4th colleagues (and apparently others) wrestled her out the door.

These are academics - and I would doubt they know how to react under a deadly fire situation - other than duck and cover.

 

[edpell]

If I were the insurance company for the University I would be filing a lawsuit against the Braintree Mass. police department for criminal negligence. Seeking to have them pay the payouts due to the shootings.

 

[edpell]

...so that she could possibly continue on her rampage? .

I would not wrestle a person with a gun even a jammed gun. Yes she might kill others on the other side of the door. Eventually she will face people who have guns and she will be stopped.

If I had a gun I would not push a person with a jammed gun out a door I would shoot them.

 

[Evo]

She shot 3 colleagues. She attempted to shoot a 4th, but the gun jammed/misfired. The 4th colleagues (and apparently others) wrestled her out the door.

Actually she shot 6 people before the gun jammed, or ran out of bullets. Three dead, 2 in the hospital in critical condition and one has been released from the hospital.

 

[Proton Soup]

...so that she could possibly continue on her rampage? That aside, I don't know if I could control my emotions at that point. My life has been threatened a few times. Once I was held at gunpoint [actually, I was kidnapped at gunpoint]. When a person's life is threatened, the animal instincts often emerge.

oh, their animal instincts kicked in, alright. they were complete sheep. until one became emboldened, and then they went into a herd mentality.