It's a vicious circle.Why do people commit mass shootings?

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A biology professor at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, Amy Bishop, has been charged with capital murder after a shooting at a faculty meeting left three dead and three injured. The incident reportedly occurred during a discussion about her tenure, raising questions about her mental state and potential motives. Bishop, who has a history of complaints about her teaching, was taken into custody while claiming, "It didn't happen," suggesting possible denial of her actions. Authorities are also investigating a "person of interest" related to the incident, which has shocked the campus community. The case highlights ongoing debates about the pressures of academic tenure and the potential for violence in high-stress environments.
  • #201
If she has a court appointed lawyer that has made public statements about his prejudiced opinion of her, won't this allow her to claim a mistrial based upon predjudiced legal representation if she loses?

If he's court appointed, shouldn't they yank him off her case immediately to avoid potential problems?
 
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  • #202
Frame Dragger said:
As I said early in this thread, Amy Bishop gave people warning signs (and I guessed at others). This isn't always the case, and one could argue if she never committed this crime that she was eccentric, or suffered from PTSD as a result of the incident with her brother. It's only in hindsight that some of these things become signals of dangerous behaviour.
If the killing of her brother was completely accidental I think you and I would agree that a case of PTSD was practically inevitable, and that she ought to have been scheduled for periodic monitoring sessions with a therapist. That would have probably applied to her mother, who witnessed it, as well. There was, unfortunately, no one to suggest or enforce this. The father didn't witness it, but I'm sure he was bewildered and shocked to the point he never sat down and straightened his mind out about the best way to salvage his family.

As for getting help, as I understand she was charged, and has to attend anger management classes.
You mean after the IHOP incident? I hadn't read this. 'Preciate a link if you got one.

The reality is that in this country you are not going to be compelled to seek psychological treatment except in EXTREMES. The streets are packed with schizophrenics and other lost souls who are 'harmless' by the legal definition, both to themselves and others. This is a woman who could keep a mask on at least SOME of the time.
True.


Is she insane? Well, she fits plenty of diagnostic criteria, but none that would be workable as plea in court. The legal definition vs. every other definition of insanity is separated by a vast gulf of ignorance. Yes, we understand that in a better world Bishop would have been singled out early in life and helped or sequestered. Alas, we live in this, "the best of all possible worlds". :frown:
True.

That said, here's a mass of new info collected from people who knew her in the past:

Meanwhile, in Massachusetts, neighbors and colleagues shared revealing recollections about Bishop during her days living in Braintree, Newton, and Ipswich and studying at Northeastern and Harvard universities. They described her as someone who was obviously bright, but also difficult or odd.

In Newton, neighbor Johnny Henk said he remembered Bishop as a "wacky" woman who was often seen yelling at her husband and children, but who also would play the violin in her home and invite neighborhood children to sit and listen.

"One minute she's fine, the other minutes hollering and screaming, " Henk said.

In Ipswich, police said that Bishop called 911 so many times to complain about the noise of children riding dirt bikes or playing basketball that police referred to her and her husband as "regular customers."

"There was never enough we could do for them," Officer Michael Thomas said. "When someone calls the police a lot about their neighbors, it says either they are not able to cooperate enough with them or that they are just unable to adapt to a neighborhood."

And in Hamilton, where Bishop joined a writing group, other aspiring authors recalled that the biologist-writer was talented but awkward. Bishop had penned three dramatic novels - a suspense thriller about an IRA operative; a tale about a virus that made all women barren and ended mankind; and a book she titled "Martians in Belfast," which recounted the life of a girl growing up during the Troubles of Ireland, according to Rob Dinsmoor, a member of the Hamilton Writers Group, which Bishop attended in the late 1990s.

"She really had a knack for writing character, dread, and suspense, "Dinsmoor said. But, he said, she sometimes felt ill at ease in the academic world. "She didn't know how to interact with them. She would just say what's on her mind, and that would get her in trouble."

The shootings in Alabama dredged up some powerful memories for a former mechanic in Braintree, who was at work on the day in 1986 that Bishop shot her brother and then ran from the family home.

Tom Pettigrew said a wild-eyed Bishop burst into the dealership where he was working, pointed a shotgun at employees, and said that she had had a fight with her husband and he was going to come after her, so she needed a getaway car.

"I yelled, 'What are you doing' and she screamed at me to put my hands up. So I put my hands up, " recalled Pettigrew, 45, in an interview at his home in Quincy yesterday.

Pettigrew said Braintree police briefly questioned him and several other employees, but authorities never contacted him again. Now, after the deaths in Alabama, Pettigrew wonders why authorities didn't follow up more aggressively.

"It was almost like they wanted to put it on the shelf and forget about it,"said Pettigrew, whose encounter with Bishop was first reported by the Boston Herald. 'I think if that happened to me I'd be wrapping up a long prison sentence. But with this, it seems like they just wanted it to go away."

Polio, the Braintree police chief at the time, said yesterday that he knew Bishop had to be apprehended at gunpoint, but he said he did not know she had pointed the shotgun at Pettigrew.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2010/02/some_question_q.html
 
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  • #203
She was a Betty, back in the day:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/edited%20Amy_Bishop.jpg
Amy Bishop in 1988

Sweet Doe eyes.
 
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  • #204
More interesting back history from people who knew her:

http://www.startribune.com/nation/84855632.html?elr=KArks:DCiUMEaPc:UiacyKUUr

Amy Bishop's intelligence was never debatable. Even as a child, she didn't hesitate to tell people when they were wrong. As she grew older, earned a Harvard Ph.D and claimed a genius IQ of 180, her brilliance could come with a bluntness, condescension and volatile self-righteousness.
 
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  • #205
"It's unusual":

Amy Bishop, husband listed teens on research paper

Amy Bishop and her husband gave top billing to their three teenage daughters in the author credits of a paper they published last May in the International Journal of General Medicine on the impact of antidepressants on motor function.

The youngest of the teens is 14. The oldest, 18-year-old Lily Bishop Anderson, is a genetics student at the University of Alabama in Huntsville, where Bishop, a $63,000-per-year biology professor three months from being canned, is alleged to have slaughtered three colleagues and wounded three others in a rampage shooting one week ago today.

Bishop’s court-appointed attorney, Roy Miller, was expected to hold his first press conference on the case this morning.

UAH spokesman Ray Garner said yesterday the school was unaware Bishop and James Anderson Jr., both 45, had put their kids’ names to a research project for which the paper also credits the school and the couple’s home-based science research company Cherokee Lab Systems.

“It’s unusual,” Garner said.

Tim Hill, publisher of Dove Medical Press in New Zealand, would not respond to whether Bishop and Anderson revealed their collaborators were kids.

“Dr. Amy Bishop was the corresponding author of this paper. Her paper . . . was peer-reviewed by three experts and revised by Dr. Bishop prior to an editorial decision to accept the revised paper for publication,” Hill said.

Bishop’s father-in-law, Jimmy Anderson Sr., 71, said, “They’re very bright little kids.”

More at:

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view.bg?articleid=1233888

http://multimedia.heraldinteractive.com/images/20100218/2d912f_Bishops_02192010.jpg
 
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  • #206
Evo said:
If she has a court appointed lawyer that has made public statements about his prejudiced opinion of her, won't this allow her to claim a mistrial based upon predjudiced legal representation if she loses?

If he's court appointed, shouldn't they yank him off her case immediately to avoid potential problems?

Nope. That's why Voire Dire exists, and the entire jury selection process. If we can try a terrorist such as Timothy McVeigh who had PLENTY of press... we can try one frumpy narcissist who snapped when the weight of her failures collided with the impossiblity of her dreams.

Zoobyshoe Thanks for the information... interesting and disturbign. Here's a link, although I was wrong. http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2010/02/amy_bishop_was.html

She was RECOMMNENDED to anger management... no one knows if she ever was forced to attend.

Zoobyshoe said:
If the killing of her brother was completely accidental I think you and I would agree that a case of PTSD was practically inevitable, and that she ought to have been scheduled for periodic monitoring sessions with a therapist. That would have probably applied to her mother, who witnessed it, as well. There was, unfortunately, no one to suggest or enforce this."

Well we have to remember that this occurred 24 years ago when widespread knowledge of PTSD among law enforcement and the lay public was MAYBE just beginning. In '86 you'd still have the concept of what happened to Vietnam veterans in the fore, and while medical/psycholgical 'stuff' hadn't yet become 'cool' and accessible at the touch of a button.

It's reasonable to assume one of two scenarios:

1.) Bishop (for reasons unknown) shoots her brother twice with a shotgun. The mother witnesses it, and having just lost one child refuses to lose another to prison. Her testimony that it was an accident can't be underplayed. In that scenario she's either a psychopath or has some other galaxy of disorders, and the rest of her life follows.

2.) Bishop accidentally shoots her brother twice (not impossible depending on the type of shotgun) and she and her mother are absolutely traumatized. The grandiosity and other apparent disorders are manifestions of defense mechanisms and genuinely altered neurbiology (trauma will do that) in this scenario. Eventually in a state of depression and hopelessness, channeled into rage... she commits her crime.

Now, Bishop is claiming not to remember the event, and various other statements that are inconsistant with #2. She has four children, and a long career even if it wasn't all it could have been. She is essentially arguing that she entered some kind of fictional psychotic fugue to distance herself from having to publicly aknowledge the crime. After all, she was stopped before she finished her 'rampage'. I don't believe she expected to survive the entire event, and people like that tend to cope poorly in the aftermath of a failed suicide attempt in which all you've accomplished is murder.

She is being seen in a light she probably can't accept, and was never prepared for. Hope she enjoys it before she rides old sparky, or whatever they use in Alabama. (Blue-collar comedy?)
 
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  • #207
rewebster said:
too many buildings usually--between the dorms and class buildings + all the entrances to each---cost too much versus the safety of escape for fire codes

Agreed. If chemistry labs are in the same building, the last thing you want is to hold people up at the doors when someone drops some phosphorus pentachloride.
 
  • #208
PhaseShifter said:
Agreed. If chemistry labs are in the same building, the last thing you want is to hold people up at the doors when someone drops some phosphorus pentachloride.

Not to mention that anyone who has EVER seen The Godfather, read a spy novel, or had an original thought would consider hiding weapons and ammunition in the building off-hours, or through a window. The focus on security is at choke-points for travel... it's not as though this would be an embassy patrolled by marines.

Given that, given the chem-lab example; the answer is both that this is something that will happen again in some form, and that we need to pursue ways of profiling an individual with biometrics and human intelligence to screen for odd behavioural patterns. It's that, or accept unwelcome and unecessary (in the grander scheme) encroachments of personal freedoms and privacy. The way I see it, careful or not, some small subset will do terrible things, much in the way that bacteria become drug resistant. It's just a matter of keeping the pace of our adaptation as a society in line with real crime statistics, in which spree killings and workplace killings are a TINY TINY minority (even discounting all property crimes).

The fellow at Fort Hood was clearly a risk, or at least someone who should have been given closer observation for a number of reasons (disinterest and incompetence being first among them), but most people who 'snap' do so BECAUSE they're 'internalizing their anger' and other feelings. Outside of the occasional rant while drunk, sudden mood swing, etc... discounted as 'unlike that person', these individuals often skirt trouble or failure, but keep to themselves. It's their withdrawn nature and hermetic emotional world that causes such a violent and sudden eruption.

Furthermore, as this anger usually leads to a variety of secondary issues: paranoid delusions, depression, derealization, suicidality and the desire to regain control by any means... a person's likely target is not always easy to determine. Unlike a killer motivated by money or ideology, this person is lashing out and self-destructing. It may often be triggered by a firing, or some similar event (the pilot who just crashed into the IRS offices in Austin), but those are events we all live through (usually) and since the anger is misdirected and previously hidden... boom.

The best we can do as individuals is to realize that workplace violence = high profile = security contracts = $$$ at stake = truth is distorted to induce irrational fear. The amount spent on worthless security measures (the bomb 'sniffer' would be a recent one); even those considered above reproach such as x-raying baggage at the airport (many screeners have failed routine testing, and some really obvious tests) are often just for peace of mind. Of course, if people appreciated the low level of risk then they wouldn't be terrified in the first place, the workplace needn't be so stressful and people who are considered 'odd', but are no more violent than anyone else don't have to pretend to like the sport du jour. :wink:
 
  • #209
"Pettigrew said Braintree police briefly questioned him and several other employees, but authorities never contacted him again. Now, after the deaths in Alabama, Pettigrew wonders why authorities didn't follow up more aggressively.

"It was almost like they wanted to put it on the shelf and forget about it,"said Pettigrew, whose encounter with Bishop was first reported by the Boston Herald. 'I think if that happened to me I'd be wrapping up a long prison sentence. But with this, it seems like they just wanted it to go away.""

I still want to know how much money do Amy's mother and father have.
 
  • #210
edpell said:
"Pettigrew said Braintree police briefly questioned him and several other employees, but authorities never contacted him again. Now, after the deaths in Alabama, Pettigrew wonders why authorities didn't follow up more aggressively.

"It was almost like they wanted to put it on the shelf and forget about it,"said Pettigrew, whose encounter with Bishop was first reported by the Boston Herald. 'I think if that happened to me I'd be wrapping up a long prison sentence. But with this, it seems like they just wanted it to go away.""

I still want to know how much money do Amy's mother and father have.

Not a matter of money if they were living in Braintree. Think of it however... the police show up and the mother insists from the first that this was accidental. Amy does the same. It's not entirely outside of the realm of human nature or police investigations (especially given the ease of some forensic procedures in 1986 vs now) that ruling it as accidental wouldn't be impossible.

Remember, the District Attorney has to file charges (they are not compelled to do so), and this would have been a losing case! A jury is going to probably listen to the mother of the dead son, who witnessed the event.

If you needed money to subvert justice, we'd live in a better and cleaner world. Sadly, human nature is all that's needed in MOST cases. M.I.C.E. people... MICE.
 
  • #211
Gov orders probe of ‘mistakes’ in ‘86 Bishop case
http://www.bostonherald.com/news/regional/view/20100219mass_state_cops_reviewing_handling_of_bishop_case/

Followed suddenly by:

Prosecutor says Amy Bishop could have been charged in 1986

Norfolk County prosecutors have just announced that they have located the missing files in the 1986 shooting death of Seth Bishop by his sister, Amy Bishop. The Norfolk County district attorney now says that, after reviewing the files, he has concluded that probable cause existed in 1986 to arrest Amy Bishop and charge her with assault and weapons crimes. But, at the time, the death was declared accidental.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2010/02/prosecutor_says.html
 
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  • #212
edpell said:
I still want to know how much money do Amy's mother and father have.


Bishop, 45, grew up in suburban Braintree, about eight miles south of Boston. Her mother, Judith, was active in local politics as one of 240 elected town meeting members. Her father, Samuel Bishop, was a Northeastern University art professor...

http://www.startribune.com/nation/84855632.html?elr=KArks:DCiUMEaPc:UiacyKUUr

There's no mention of old money, or a wealthy family.
 
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  • #213
I assume Massachusetts has not limitation on the prosecution of murder cases. Will the Norfolk County prosecutor charge Amy with murder in her brothers fatal shooting? It is never too late.
 
  • #214
Frame Dragger said:
Remember, the District Attorney has to file charges (they are not compelled to do so), and this would have been a losing case! A jury is going to probably listen to the mother of the dead son, who witnessed the event.

If you needed money to subvert justice, we'd live in a better and cleaner world. Sadly, human nature is all that's needed in MOST cases. M.I.C.E. people... MICE.

You may be right from a practical point of view the case may have been un-winnable. On the other hand the case is winnable now!

What does mice stand for?
 
  • #215
edpell said:
I assume Massachusetts has not limitation on the prosecution of murder cases. Will the Norfolk County prosecutor charge Amy with murder in her brothers fatal shooting? It is never too late.

Ooooh, that I don't know. I don't believe there is a statute of limitations for murder, but the case would be no easier now. I'm no lawyer, but I understand the principles of law enough to know that in Mass at least and federal court, inclusion of evidence from her shooting spree would be inadmissable (prejudicial among other things).

Finally, Alabama has her, and they're probably going to kill her at the end of the day. In Mass, we don't have the death penalty, and even when we did it wasn't something we did with relish. Finally, while jail in Mass is probably no fun at all, I'm faily sure an Alabama pen must be worse.

Oh, and MICE is a wonderful acronym: "Money, Ideology, Compromise/Coercion, Ego", which was (and really still is) considered to be the sum-total of all the reasons that a person would betray their country within an Intelligence scenario. 'Compromise' for the record, in this context means to compromise the integrity or position of a potential source.

I find that it extends to the realm of human motivations outside of the virtuous and loving in almost all walks of life. :smile:
 
  • #216
What about the possible case against Amy's mom for accessory to murder? Does not Amy's brother and father deserve justice? Do not the people of Massachusetts desire justice?
 
  • #217
Frame Dragger said:
Finally, Alabama has her, and they're probably going to kill her at the end of the day. In Mass, we don't have the death penalty, and even when we did it wasn't something we did with relish. Finally, while jail in Mass is probably no fun at all, I'm faily sure an Alabama pen must be worse.

maybe. the fact that she's a woman changes things.

prison here certainly wouldn't be like in Alaska.
 
  • #218
edpell said:
What about the possible case against Amy's mom for accessory to murder? Does not Amy's brother and father deserve justice? Do not the people of Massachusetts desire justice?

Does it matter? She's facing three counts of capital murder in which her only hope is a diminished capacity defense, which rarely works. She's very likely going to be executed in Alabama, and given that I think you could argue that justice delivered in any state of the union is universal. What are we going to do here?... waste money on a trial for a dead woman? Put the mother, and witness, of the son being killed (murder or not) on trial without any evidence?

If she murdered her brother, the time when a viable case could have been made in court has passed. Such is the system, and really it makes sense.

Proton Soup The woman who stopped her 'rampage' (people have no sense of scale anymore) has said that Biship, having already shot 6 people, turned the gun on her and pulled the trigger multiple times. The gun either misfired, or was out of ammunition, but that is COLD while a colleauge of yours is begging for her life, and you keep pulling the trigger.

I suspect that the testimony of survivors and the potential scope and clear premedition of the crime will in fact land her a fairly swift (7-10 years probably) execution. Alabama after all, may not be Texas when it comes to executions, but it's not NY either.
 
  • #219
Frame Dragger said:
Well we have to remember that this occurred 24 years ago when widespread knowledge of PTSD among law enforcement and the lay public was MAYBE just beginning. In '86 you'd still have the concept of what happened to Vietnam veterans in the fore, and while medical/psycholgical 'stuff' hadn't yet become 'cool' and accessible at the touch of a button.
That's what I'm saying. There was no one to suggest or enforce this.

It's reasonable to assume one of two scenarios:

1.) Bishop (for reasons unknown) shoots her brother twice with a shotgun. The mother witnesses it, and having just lost one child refuses to lose another to prison. Her testimony that it was an accident can't be underplayed. In that scenario she's either a psychopath or has some other galaxy of disorders, and the rest of her life follows.

2.) Bishop accidentally shoots her brother twice (not impossible depending on the type of shotgun) and she and her mother are absolutely traumatized. The grandiosity and other apparent disorders are manifestions of defense mechanisms and genuinely altered neurbiology (trauma will do that) in this scenario. Eventually in a state of depression and hopelessness, channeled into rage... she commits her crime.

Now, Bishop is claiming not to remember the event, and various other statements that are inconsistant with #2. She has four children, and a long career even if it wasn't all it could have been. She is essentially arguing that she entered some kind of fictional psychotic fugue to distance herself from having to publicly aknowledge the crime. After all, she was stopped before she finished her 'rampage'. I don't believe she expected to survive the entire event, and people like that tend to cope poorly in the aftermath of a failed suicide attempt in which all you've accomplished is murder.
These are reasonable scenarios. However, there are indications that it could be quite a bit more complex. I would like to know the exact nature of the argument she had with her father that seems to have precipitated this shooting.

As we have learned, she was previously afraid of the gun, but had decided suddenly, for reasons not disclosed, to teach herself how to load it. She said she decided to do this for fear of burglars but didn't explain why that fear suddenly overcame her fear of the gun on that particular day after the gun had been in the house a year. Loading the gun happened after an argument with her father, after which he left the house. What had she and her father argued about? Was she complaining that Dad spent too much time with Seth at the gun club? Was she a female Cain? Alternately, the nature of the argument could have been such that she was planning to shoot the Dad when he returned home (did he complain that her tuition was becoming too costly, for example, threatening her education?), and the shooting of the brother was, in fact, an accident that resulted from her being both intensely angry and unfamiliar with the gun.

I, personally, would like to know a lot more about that argument with her father, how it ties in with her trying to load the gun, if it does. A person doesn't go from being afraid of a weapon to wanting to know how to use it unless they suddenly have a motivation to use it. In the absence of knowing what exactly made her decide to tackle the gun that day, one can imagine a lot of deliberate, and half deliberate, hostile motivations.



-------

Based on what they found in the file, she could have been charged with crimes at the time of the shooting:

The analysis of the newly received documents, as well as the previously released March 30, 1987 State Police report indicate that probable cause existed at that time to place Amy Bishop under arrest charged with:
Assault with a Dangerous Weapon, Chap. 265 Sec. 15B
Carrying a Dangerous Weapon, Chap. 269 Sec. 10, 12D
Unlawful possession of ammunition, Chap. 269 Ch. 10 (h)

But:

The statute of limitations has run on all of those charges.
 
  • #220
Frame Dragger said:
Proton Soup The woman who stopped her 'rampage' (people have no sense of scale anymore) has said that Biship, having already shot 6 people, turned the gun on her and pulled the trigger multiple times. The gun either misfired, or was out of ammunition, but that is COLD while a colleauge of yours is begging for her life, and you keep pulling the trigger.

I suspect that the testimony of survivors and the potential scope and clear premedition of the crime will in fact land her a fairly swift (7-10 years probably) execution. Alabama after all, may not be Texas when it comes to executions, but it's not NY either.

i've lived here for nearly 40 years. you can take it or leave it as you please. but in addition to having a somewhat aggressive stance when it comes to capital punishment, we also have a bit of misplaced chivalry when it comes to flipping the switch on a woman. i don't think it's out of the question that she'll get fried, but chances are also pretty good that she won't.
 
  • #221
Frame Dragger said:
Does it matter? She's facing

You miss my point the woman that is the mother of Amy Bishop may be guilty of accessory to murder. She has not yet been charged with anything. She is loose on the streets of Massachusetts. Will she help kill again?

When your own mother aids in your murder do you not deserve justice? -- Amy's brother
 
  • #222
Proton Soup said:
but in addition to having a somewhat aggressive stance when it comes to capital punishment, we also have a bit of misplaced chivalry when it comes to flipping the switch on a woman.

On Boston Common is a statue of Mary Dyer. She was hung for being a Quaker by the Puritans of Boston. They have no problem killing women.
 
  • #223
edpell said:
On Boston Common is a statue of Mary Dyer. She was hung for being a Quaker by the Puritans of Boston. They have no problem killing women.

your geography is a little off, methinks
 
  • #224
Proton Soup said:
your geography is a little off, methinks

It has been said the south may be overly gallant towards women. If she were tried (for the possible murder of her brother) in Massachusetts (near Boston ;) ) they have no problem hanging women.
 
  • #225
zoobyshoe said:
there are indications that it could be quite a bit more complex. I would like to know the exact nature of the argument she had with her father that seems to have precipitated this shooting.

Did she intend to shoot Dad? Did brother argue with her about this? Did she shoot brother to end the argument? Did Mom aid and abet in any way?
 
  • #226
edpell said:
It has been said the south may be overly gallant towards women. If she were tried (for the possible murder of her brother) in Massachusetts (near Boston ;) ) they have no problem hanging women.

she'll never be tried there
 
  • #227
edpell said:
Did she intend to shoot Dad? Did brother argue with her about this? Did she shoot brother to end the argument? Did Mom aid and abet in any way?
We don't know. The first step is to find out exactly why she decided to overcome her fear of the gun on that particular day. The burglary and purchase of the gun happened a year prior to the shooting of the brother. It was mentioned that she had an argument with the father that day, then he left the house. What was the argument about, and could it have made her angry enough to want to shoot someone?
 
  • #228
Another school shooting in the news:

Math teacher hailed as hero after Colorado school shooting

...The 57-year-old teacher charged the gunman and knocked him to the ground. While an assistant principal grabbed the rifle, Benke and another teacher kept the shooter pinned until police arrived...
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation-and-world/la-na-colorado-shooting25-2010feb25,0,5461391.story

He noticed that the gunman was using a bolt-action rifle. Knowing that it would take a moment to fire again, the teacher charged. Now THAT was a very brave thing to do. He only had a moment.
 
  • #229
What the hell drives people to go shooting up schools? Is it to get their 15 minutes of fame or what?
 
  • #230
I haven't seen any reports yet about a motive in this case. The other mass shootings in schools that I remember all involved students or former students with grudges against other students or the school in general. They felt like they'd been mistreated for being "different" in some way and were looking for revenge.

This guy was a former student, but he's 32 so that was at least about 18 years ago (this is a middle school, 7th and 8th grades), when none of the current students had even been born yet.
 
  • #231
MotoH said:
What the hell drives people to go shooting up schools? Is it to get their 15 minutes of fame or what?

I can tell you that from the formal psychological percpective if you like. I realize that = slumming for physicists :wink: .

Imagine you want to succeed in life (maybe not a stretch), but you constantly fall short of your and other's expectations. Feeling inadequate you either isolate yourself and become more depressed (over years/decades), or you become VERY angry (rage really) and the challenges of life become focused on a set of events or people.

At some point in your life, a crisis occurs, which could be existential, or financial (or in the case of amy bishop, having tenure finally out of your grasp). Now, most people would:

1.) Buy a porsche.
2.) Cheat on their spouse.
3.) Both.
4.) Find religion
5.) Golf (ta ta TUM!)
6.) Get help, cry, etc.

If however you never developed meaningful coping skills, you suddenly feel UTTERLY overwhelmed and out of control. This is frankly unbearable for a human being, but since options 1-6 (and others ofcourse) are not on the table, and rage is RIGHT there (or hopelessness) the following occurs.

Obsession: This has already happened, and so the target is there and waiting, always. Who is less important than WHAT.
A Message: Like a child hitting, they're saying "SEE HOW BAD I FEEL?! See how ANGRY I can be?"
Significance: We ARE talking about these people. Say what we want, they have an impact, and they know it. That's life

That's usually a part, but the dual driving force is THIS:
1.) No hope. I want to die.
2.) I am so full of rage, I will hurt and hurt until someone puts me down

It's simple, sad, and very human. It is the victory of the limbic system over the frontal lobe, and it's evidence of misery both past, and created by these events.

The sad thing is that instead of using these as models for less extreme early violent criminal behaviour, and helping those kids or young wo/men... we focus on the few people who really DO snap this way, and ignore those people who constantly act out by just shutting them away.

*sigh*
 

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