Just wondering what the latest descriptions of space were.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of space as described by modern physics. Participants explore various conceptualizations of space, questioning whether it moves, flows, or behaves like a fabric or matrix. The conversation touches on theoretical perspectives, historical context, and the current state of understanding in physics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that space can be thought of as part of spacetime, with caution against using the term "fabric" due to potential misconceptions.
  • One participant expresses surprise at the lack of new hypotheses regarding space, noting a historical context where discussions were more prevalent.
  • Another participant references Roger Penrose's definition of space and time, highlighting the complexity of understanding these concepts.
  • There is a mention that General Relativity (GR) describes gravity as a result of the geometry of spacetime, but questions remain about the nature of space itself.
  • Some participants argue that the questions posed in the initial post remain unanswered, indicating a lack of consensus on the nature of space.
  • One participant emphasizes that space cannot be observed directly, only through the interactions of objects within it.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the nature of space, with no consensus reached. Some agree on the relationship between space and spacetime as described by General Relativity, while others challenge the adequacy of current explanations and express a desire for new ideas.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the limitations in understanding space, noting unresolved questions and differing philosophical interpretations of what space represents.

bill alsept
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Just wondering what the latest descriptions of space were. How would you say modern day physics describes it? Does it move or flow? Is it more like a fabric or Matrix? If it moves does it just stretch and bend. I realize no one knows for sure but wanted to know what you guys here at P.F. think are the best definitions of space are or even the worst.
 
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Space. That which we put our coordinate systems in.
 


bill alsept said:
Just wondering what the latest descriptions of space were. How would you say modern day physics describes it? Does it move or flow? Is it more like a fabric or Matrix? If it moves does it just stretch and bend. I realize no one knows for sure but wanted to know what you guys here at P.F. think are the best definitions of space are or even the worst.

Space is best thought of a one part of spacetime. The term "fabric" is widely used but should be avoided as it leads to silly misconceptions.
 


Are there no better descriptions of space? Are there any new ideas at all? A hundred years ago there seemed to be much more discussion and books about space and gravity. I lived my whole life thinking these things had been answered only to find out no one really had a clue. I find this more exciting than disappointing but was wondering why there are no new hypothesis being offered.
 


bill alsept said:
Are there no better descriptions of space? Are there any new ideas at all? A hundred years ago there seemed to be much more discussion and books about space and gravity. I lived my whole life thinking these things had been answered only to find out no one really had a clue. I find this more exciting than disappointing but was wondering why there are no new hypothesis being offered.

Yeah, it's both exciting and frustrating that we don't have a better understanding than we do of a lot of things.

I like Roger Penrose's (I think it was) definition of space and time: Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once and space it what keeps if from all happening to me.
 


bill alsept said:
Are there no better descriptions of space? Are there any new ideas at all? A hundred years ago there seemed to be much more discussion and books about space and gravity. I lived my whole life thinking these things had been answered only to find out no one really had a clue. I find this more exciting than disappointing but was wondering why there are no new hypothesis being offered.

Space is considered to be part of spacetime in accordance with the theory of General Relativity, which has to date been verified by every experiment designed to test it. We simply haven't gotten any new hypothesis that explain it better than GR does.
 


I'm just surprised that science has accepted answers like these for so long. How does anyone know what spacetime is if they don't know what space is? And in what way does GR explain it? In either case none of the questions in post #1 are answered.
 


bill alsept said:
I'm just surprised that science has accepted answers like these for so long. How does anyone know what spacetime is if they don't know what space is? And in what way does GR explain it? In either case none of the questions in post #1 are answered.

bill alsept said:
Just wondering what the latest descriptions of space were. How would you say modern day physics describes it? Does it move or flow? Is it more like a fabric or Matrix? If it moves does it just stretch and bend. I realize no one knows for sure but wanted to know what you guys here at P.F. think are the best definitions of space are or even the worst.

From wikipedia: Space is the boundless, three-dimensional extent in which objects and events occur and have relative position and direction.[1] Physical space is often conceived in three linear dimensions, although modern physicists usually consider it, with time, to be part of a boundless four-dimensional continuum known as spacetime. In mathematics,"spaces" are examined with different numbers of dimensions and with different underlying structures. The concept of space is considered to be of fundamental importance to an understanding of the physical universe. However, disagreement continues between philosophers over whether it is itself an entity, a relationship between entities, or part of a conceptual framework.

There is no consensus as to what space is. General Relativity describes gravity as the result of the geometry of spacetime itself. By that I mean that if we track the movement of an object, such as a test particle, through spacetime from one point to another it will behave as though spacetime has certain geometric features, such as being curved in certain ways. Note that we CANNOT observe "space itself", only how objects interact within space. Space is not a "fabric", it does not stretch, bend, move, or flow as far as I understand it.
 

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