Killer Hippies Convicted of Murder

  • #101
There is nothing unethical about killing animals for food.
That depends on the moral system in question. A psychopath’s ethical code would allow such killing without question.

You did not specify the circumstances. In the Western World, where I am located and I expect most here are, unless we are lost at sea, lost in the mountains, or in some other sort of 'survival' situation, then there is no justification for killing anything for food (anything sentient and with a central nervous system, that is). And even in a survival situation, would it not be the kindest act, an act of utmost altruism and selflessness to just fade away instead of causing great pain and death to others, and most likely many others?

My code of ethics is very straightforward. Simply put it is to cause least harm.

They are not "barbaric
They are very barbaric. In fact I doubt very much that they could be any more barbaric than they are now (any more barbarity and production could be threatened).

Perhaps you wrote that because you know very little about what actually goes on in animal agriculture? Or maybe you are guilty of indifference toward our fellow earthlings and you have commodified them, in which case it would be hard to consider anything done to a truck full of limestone as barbaric.
 
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  • #102
JasonRox
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And what do these things have to do with not eating meat?

Your talking about an organic diet. Whats that have to do with not eating meat?
Did you read the last quote? No, you did not.

Can you back up your claim? I'm still waiting.
 
  • #103
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There is nothing unethical about killing animals for food. /QUOTE]

That depends on the moral system in question. A psychopath’s ethical code would allow such killing without question.

You did not specify the circumstances. In the Western World, where I am located and I expect most here are, unless we are lost at sea, lost in the mountains, or in some other sort of 'survival' situation, then there is no justification for killing anything for food (anything sentient and with a central nervous system, that is). And even in a survival situation, would it not be the kindest act, an act of utmost altruism and selflessness to just fade away instead of causing great pain and death to others, and most likely many others?

My code of ethics is very straightforward. Simply put it is to cause least harm.
I find your code of ethics highly questionable. There is nothing wrong with killing animals for consumption. Absolutely nothing.

Perhaps you wrote that because you know very little about what actually goes on in animal agriculture? Or maybe you are guilty of indifference toward our fellow earthlings and you have commodified them, in which case it would be hard to consider anything done to a truck full of limestone as barbaric.
They should be killed as humanely as possible, but killed none-the-less.
 
  • #104
Chi Meson
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Moonbear,

have you noticed that people ignore sensible arguments from the center?
 
  • #105
and the perjorative use of the word "hippies" by the OP was intentionally baiting. Unfortunately, your scholar Tsarion dips into the same language style that you (correctly, I think) criticise. And the 2500 gallons of water per pound of meat is about as correct as Eskimos "200 words for snow"; everytime someone quotes this fact, the number seems to multiply.

Yet it does not follow that since some vegans are healthy and live long lives, therefore eating meat is bad. Brendan Brazier is a fine triathlete; so is Mark Allen, who switched from vegitarianism to omnivorism and then became the greatest triathlete ever.
That Tsarion quote is somewhat esoteric and needs to be taken in context. I extracted it from his blog, which he unfortunately has since discontinued and replaced with a forum, so I am unable to link to what he wrote in its entirety. I disagree that it is on a par with the thread title.

Michael Tsarion is a researcher of history, politics, our origins, and religions. He has a wealth of free material on his website, including many videos and radio interviews with him.

Website of Michael Tsarion:

http://www.michaeltsarion.com/

The figure of 2,500 gallons used to produce a pound of meat originally came from the New York Times (14 November, 1974), as referenced at the bottom of this link:

http://home.iae.nl/users/lightnet/health/Earth/Earth.htm

I guess the amount of water used depends on the location (more used in California than in Scotland, for example) and the species of animal being farmed. So it is not surprising that the figures vary.

According to the National Agriculture Land Study 1980/US Department of Agriculture Misc.
Publications no 1065 Nov. 1979, half of all drinking water in the USA is used in animal agriculture.

The fact that some vegan people lived long, had active lives, and./or were champion athletes, does not alone indicate that it is the optimum diet. What it does do, however, is provide empiric proof that such things, longevity, athletic success, is feasible on the vegan diet. People are often different, in how they respond to diet and other things. Some people can live to be 115-years old smoking cigars and drinking whisky everyday, not to mention the lousy diet they ate, while others end up in the hospital or dead following exactly the same lifestyle but after less than a third of the time! Perhaps that 115-year old would have made it to 150 with a healthier lifestyle, or had greater health and vitality in his later years? Maybe he would have died quickly rather than slowly with much pain and discomfort?

What is clear is that the majority of people are vulnerable to the ill effects of carcinogens, saturated animal fats, cholesterol, and other miscellaneous chemicals (including the concentrated pesticides and herbicides that the animals ate, and the very many medications the farmer gave them just to keep them alive on the factory farm), all of which are found in animal derived ‘foods’. The vast majority of nutritionists and dieticians agree that animal products are bad for health and the optimum diet is to be found through eating only plant based foods.

The science and evidence certainly, and very strongly, maintains that the healthiest diet for humans to adopt is the 100% plant based diet. Not only plant based, but raw plant based (majority of foods raw, at least).
 
  • #106
I find your code of ethics highly questionable. There is nothing wrong with killing animals for consumption. Absolutely nothing.



They should be killed as humanely as possible, but killed none-the-less.
Should be killed? Why?
 
  • #107
Office_Shredder
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Chi Meson, it's because neither side likes arguments from the center.

When people pick sides in a debate like this, they have no intention of actually gaining knowledge, or giving meaningful debate. Rather, it's simply a competition to see who can come up with the wittiest comebacks and the most extensive list of websites off google that will support them. When somebody actually produces a logical argument that draws from the best of both worlds, it feels like that person is attacking everyone at once
 
  • #108
I find your code of ethics highly questionable. There is nothing wrong with killing animals for consumption. Absolutely nothing.
How can you be taken seriously in this discussion when you make comments such as the one above?

They should be killed as humanely as possible, but killed none-the-less.
There is no such thing as 'humane killing' (euthanasia, etc., arguments aside). What you wrote is an antilogy.

Would it be OK for me to kill you, your family or friends, so long as I did it 'humanely'? I doubt it.

Again, I suggest you look into what actually happens in animal agriculture, including the factory farms and slaughterhouses, because you appear very ignorant on the matter.

Start with this pdf book, which the author has made freely available online:

Vegan.CVR.jpg


Download link:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=36E71JQM [Broken]

Factory farming:

http://www.factoryfarming.com/

Meet Your Meat (video 13 minutes):

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-513747926833909134&q=meet+your+meat [Broken]

Earthlings (documentary video, 1 hour 38 minutes):

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-1282796533661048967&q=earthlings [Broken]

Diet for a New America (TV documentary based on the book, 59-minutes)

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=6799801929001936259&q=diet+for+a+new+america [Broken]
 
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  • #109
mathwonk
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i guess this section of PF is to blow off the enormous steam people build up over the semester.
 
  • #110
russ_watters
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Okie dokie, that's enough of that. I created this monster and I'm going to kill it....

...and then I'm going to eat it, probably with some barbecue sauce, or perhaps just some grilled vegetables.....hmmm, do I have any garlic...? i love garlic...
 

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