Killing Vector on S^2: Solving the Killing Equation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding Killing vectors on the two-sphere (S^2) and their relationship to isometries and the Killing equation. Participants explore the mathematical definitions and implications of these vectors, particularly in the context of the metric given for S^2.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the nature of the Killing vector R and its representation as R = d/dφ, questioning how to compute its derivatives.
  • Another participant suggests that d/dθ and d/dφ are meant to be basis tangent vectors, not one-forms, which is confirmed by others.
  • There is a discussion about the correct interpretation of derivatives and whether expressions like dR_1/dx^2 equate to d²/dφ².
  • Participants explore the implications of the tangent space definitions and how they relate to the Killing vectors, with one noting that R appears to act like an operator.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the application of these operators to coordinates and the resulting values, with some participants verifying calculations related to S and T vectors.
  • One participant reflects on the conceptual understanding of derivatives acting like unit vectors and their application in this context.
  • Another participant discusses the definition of tangent space and its dependence on coordinate systems, emphasizing the relationship between different bases.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the nature of tangent vectors and the definitions involved, but there remains some uncertainty regarding the application of the Killing equation and the interpretation of certain mathematical expressions. The discussion does not reach a consensus on all points raised.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express a lack of clarity regarding the definitions and notations used in the discussion, indicating potential limitations in understanding the mathematical framework being discussed.

negru
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Hi, I'm trying to understand isometries, for example between S^2 (two sphere) and SO(3).
For this I need to show that the killing vectors for S^2

ds^2={d\theta}^2+sin^2 {\theta} {d\phi}^2.

are:

R=\frac{d}{d\phi}}
S=cos {\phi} \frac{d}{d\theta}}-cot{\theta} sin {\phi} \frac{d}{d\phi}}
T=-sin {\phi} \frac{d}{d\theta}}-cot{\theta} cos {\phi} \frac{d}{d\phi}}

I'm not sure how to use the Killing equation, basically because I am confused by R=\frac{d}{d\phi}} not being a vector? How do I calculate the comma derivative of R then? I suppose I could convert to cartesian coordinates or something, but there has to be a direct way.
I can get that some components of the Christoffel symbol are cot{\theta} and sin{\theta}cos{\theta} and others zero, but next what are \frac{dR_a}{dx^b}? And {\Gamma}^k_a_b{R_k} for that matter.
Is \frac{dR_1}{dx^2} just equal to \frac{d^2}{d\phi^2} ?
 
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My guess might be that d/d theta and d/d phi are meant to be the basis one-forms, but i could very well be wrong.
 
d/dtheta and d/dphi are the basis tangent vectors, not one-forms.
 
dx said:
d/dtheta and d/dphi are the basis tangent vectors, not one-forms.

Yeah... that makes more sense.
 
Ok, so now what? Is \frac{dR_1}{dx^2}=\frac{d^2}{d\phi^2} correct then? What do I do with something that looks like
\frac{d^2}{d\phi^2}+cot{\theta}\frac{d}{d\phi} ? Probably not solve it, since I'm supposed to check that those are killing vectors, not find the geodesic? Or is that the only way?
 
negru said:
I am confused by R=\frac{d}{d\phi}} not being a vector?
If you think that d/d\theta isn't a vector, you might want to look up the definition of "tangent space". :smile:

The components of V\in T_pM in a coordinate system x:M\rightarrow\mathbb R^n are V^i=V(x^i).

V(x^i)=V^j\frac{\partial}{\partial x^j}\bigg|_p x^i=V^j(x^i\circ x^{-1}),_j(x(p))=V^j\delta^i_j=V^i
 
I'm not sure I got what you mean. What is R(x^1)=R({\theta}) then? I guess my main problem is that I don't have clear definitions of all these notations.
 
x would be the function that takes a point p on the sphere to the pair (\theta(p),\phi(p)), so we can write x^1=\theta as you did, and

R^1=R(x^1)=\frac{\partial}{\partial\phi}(\theta)=\frac{\partial}{\partial x^2}(\theta)=(\theta\circ x^{-1}),_2=0

Note that \theta\circ x^{-1} is the map that takes (\theta(p),\phi(p))=x(p) to \theta(p). That means it's just the map (x,y)\mapsto x (here x is just a number, not a coordinate system), and the partial derivative of that with respect to the second variable is of course 0.
 
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But R looks like an operator, which acts on something, not like a function of something. Is the argument of an operator just the function you apply it to?
R^1=R(x^1)=R({\theta})=\frac{d}{d\phi}{\theta}=0 ?
S^1=cos {\phi} \frac{d}{d\theta}}{\theta}-cot{\theta} sin {\phi} \frac{d}{d\phi}}{\theta}=cos{\phi}
S^2=cos {\phi} \frac{d}{d\theta}}{\phi}-cot{\theta} sin {\phi} \frac{d}{d\phi}}{\phi}=-cot{\theta}sin{\phi}

Is this right then?
 
  • #10
It looks right to me.
 
  • #11
Ok, I got it now, thanks! Interesting, so the derivative basically acts like a unit vector, and applying it to the coordinates is like doing a dot product. Never thought of it that way
 
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  • #12
The tangent space can be defined as the vector space that's spanned by the partial derivative operators on the manifold, which are defined using a coordinate system:

\frac{\partial}{\partial x^i}\bigg|_p f=(f\circ x^{-1}),_i(x(p))

It can also be defined in a coordinate independent way (see e.g. the GR book by Wald), but then you can prove that these operators are basis vectors of that space. You get a different basis for each coordinate system of course, but you can calculate the relationship between them using the chain rule.
 

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