Lagrange Equations of Motion for a particle in a vessel

In summary, the conversation discusses the correctness of the Lagrangian and the equation of motion. It is mentioned that the final answer should have a negative b^2⋅r(dot)^2⋅r term, but it is unclear how this term becomes negative. The speaker suggests checking the sign of the term in a simplified case and a previous mistake is corrected.
  • #1
Wombat11
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Homework Statement
A particle of mass m moves without friction on the inside wall of an axially symmetric vessel given by Z=(b/2)(x^2+y^2) where b is a constant and z is in the vertical direction. Find the Lagrangian of the system and the Euler-Lagrange equations. (Hint: work in cylindrical polar coordinates with x = r cos θ, y = r sin θ.)
Relevant Equations
I don't know how to put the equations in the computer so i'm just gonna drop a picture.
The final answer should have a negative b^2⋅r(dot)^2⋅r term but I have no idea how that term would become negative. Also I know for a fact that my Lagrangian is correct.
 

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  • #2
Well, first thing first.
The Lagrangian is a scalar, so I don't understand why did you write ##\hat{\phi}, \hat{z}## etc which are a unit-norm vectors.
As for your solution, from the steps that I checked it seems valid to me.
 
  • #3
Wombat11 said:
The final answer should have a negative b^2⋅r(dot)^2⋅r term but I have no idea how that term would become negative.
You can usually check the sign of a term in the equation of motion by considering a simple, special case of the motion.

For example, suppose you switch off gravity. In addition, suppose the initial condition is such that the the particle moves only in a fixed vertical plane so that ##\dot \theta## remains zero.

Your equation of motion then simplifies to ##\ddot r = - \frac{b^2r}{1+b^2r^2} \dot r^2##. Does the negative sign on the right side make sense?
 
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  • #4
OK, my mistake I found a mistake you wrote in the second line ##-2br\dot{r}^2## it should be a plus sign.
 
  • #5
MathematicalPhysicist said:
OK, my mistake I found a mistake you wrote in the second line ##-2br\dot{r}^2## it should be a plus sign.
I think that mistake is corrected in the next line.
 
Last edited:
  • #6
TSny said:
I think that mistake is corrected in the next line:
https://www.physicsforums.com/attachments/249157
Indeed.
 

What are Lagrange Equations of Motion for a particle in a vessel?

The Lagrange Equations of Motion for a particle in a vessel are a set of equations that describe the motion of a particle inside a vessel or container. These equations are derived from the Lagrangian formalism, which is a mathematical framework for describing the dynamics of a system.

Why are the Lagrange Equations of Motion important?

The Lagrange Equations of Motion are important because they provide a more efficient and elegant way to describe the motion of a particle in a vessel compared to traditional Newtonian mechanics. They also take into account constraints and forces acting on the particle, making them more versatile in analyzing complex systems.

What is the mathematical representation of the Lagrange Equations of Motion?

The mathematical representation of the Lagrange Equations of Motion is given by d/dt(∂L/∂qi) - ∂L/∂qi = Qi, where L is the Lagrangian function, qi represents the generalized coordinates of the particle, and Qi represents the generalized forces acting on the particle.

What are the advantages of using Lagrange Equations of Motion over Newtonian mechanics?

There are several advantages of using Lagrange Equations of Motion over Newtonian mechanics. These include the ability to handle complex systems with multiple constraints and forces, the use of generalized coordinates which can simplify calculations, and the conservation of energy and momentum in the Lagrangian formalism.

Can the Lagrange Equations of Motion be applied to systems with more than one particle?

Yes, the Lagrange Equations of Motion can be applied to systems with multiple particles. In this case, the Lagrangian function will depend on the generalized coordinates and velocities of all the particles in the system, and the equations will be modified accordingly. This makes the Lagrangian formalism powerful in analyzing the dynamics of larger systems.

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