Lagrangian vs pseudo-Lagrangian vs Eulerian

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion clarifies the distinctions and similarities between Lagrangian, pseudo-Lagrangian, and Eulerian frameworks used in hydrodynamical simulations. The Lagrangian approach involves tracking fluid particles, while the Eulerian perspective observes fluid flow at fixed points in space. The pseudo-Lagrangian method is often considered a semi-Lagrangian scheme, combining aspects of both. Numerical methods, particularly ODE solvers like Runge-Kutta and Eulerian solvers, are chosen based on the nature of the system being simulated, with accuracy and computational speed as key factors.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of fluid dynamics concepts
  • Familiarity with ordinary differential equations (ODEs)
  • Knowledge of numerical computing techniques
  • Basic grasp of simulation methodologies in physics
NEXT STEPS
  • Research "Lagrangian and Eulerian methods in fluid dynamics"
  • Explore "Runge-Kutta methods for ODE solving"
  • Investigate "Semi-Lagrangian schemes in numerical simulations"
  • Study "Applications of Eulerian methods in astrophysics"
USEFUL FOR

Researchers and students in astrophysics, computational fluid dynamics, and numerical analysis, particularly those interested in simulating fluid flows in cosmological contexts.

SpaceNerdz
Messages
19
Reaction score
1
I'm reading up a series of papers on hydrodynamical simulations for galaxies and cosmology. They keep mentioning things like "Lagrangian" or "pseudo-lagrangian" or "Eulerian". I tried looking it up on the internet, but the answers are either too broad and could mean a huge number of things in physics, or it does not even show up on Google searches.
Can someone please explain what these three terms mean, and how they are similar to one another, how they differ from one another, and why are they usually being talked about in the same breath ?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: researcher_josh23
Astronomy news on Phys.org
While I don't have a definitive answer here, I'm throwing some mud at the wall in the hopes that it helps:

I believe these are three different schemes used to solve differential equations in fluid flow problems.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrangian_and_Eulerian_specification_of_the_flow_field

First there's two possible frames of reference to use in studying fluid flow:
- Eulerian frame of reference where you watch the fluid flow by
- Lagrangian frame of reference where you travel with a differential amount of fluid

Why you choose one frame over the other may have to do with what you're trying to understand about the fluid.

Numerical Computing and ODE Solvers

Why you'd choose one ODE solver over another has to do with whether the system is periodic or is simply increasing/decreasing over time as the Eulerian solvers tend to add/subtract a small amount of error that that over time appears as energy flowing into or out o the system meaning it will become less and less accurate. Sometimes you choose the ODE solver because you need the speed and not the accuracy which favors use of an Eulerian variation over Runge-Kutta.

As an example, if you were to use an Eulerian ODE solver to simulate the Earth orbiting the Sun you might notice the orbit getting larger and larger or smaller and smaller ie spinning off into space or crashing into the Sun whereas using a fancier method such as Runge-Kutta the orbit would vary but would be stable over a long period of time any the error introduced cancels out any earlier error.

Miscellaneous References

You might have to do some further research to understand more on the methods and so I added these papers to help with that as they aren't adequately discussed online. I checked my Intro to Computer Simulations book but couldn't find any direct references to the pseudo-Lagrangian.

The pseudo Lagrangian may in fact be a semi-Lagrangian scheme but I'm not sure:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semi-Lagrangian_scheme

Here's a paper that uses Eulerian and pseudo-Lagrangian method to analyze some ocean surface waves:

https://personal.egr.uri.edu/grilli/SG-ISOPE06.pdf

and another using both methods in a galactic simulation:

https://www.slac.stanford.edu/cgi-wrap/getdoc/slac-pub-15677.pdf

and pseudo Lagrangian used in a biochemical ocean study:

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/2015JC010898All Things Euler

and from WIkipedia on Euler there's several possible choices:

Euler's ordinary differential equations[edit]
Euler's partial differential equations[edit]
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Auto-Didact and anorlunda

Similar threads

Replies
11
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
14K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K