Leq = (L1*L2-M^2)/(L1*L2-M^2)Hope this helps

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a circuit problem involving two inductances connected in parallel across an alternating current (a.c.) supply. Participants explore the application of Kirchhoff’s voltage law, the derivation of current ratios in terms of inductances, and the calculation of an equivalent inductance when a capacitor is introduced. The scope includes theoretical analysis and mathematical reasoning related to circuit behavior.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants apply Kirchhoff’s voltage law to derive equations for the loops in the circuit.
  • There are differing interpretations of how to express the current ratio I1/I2 based on the derived equations.
  • Participants propose that the equivalent inductance Leq can be expressed as Leq = (L1*L2-M^2)/(L1+L2-2*M), but there is uncertainty about the derivation and implications of this expression.
  • One participant questions the relationship between the total current and the equivalent inductance, seeking clarification on the expression I1 + I2 = V/jw*Leq.
  • Some participants discuss the concept of admittance and its application in determining the conditions for resonance in the circuit.
  • There are calculations presented for determining the value of inductance L based on given parameters, with some participants arriving at different numerical results.
  • Several participants express confusion regarding specific parts of the problem, particularly in deriving the current ratio and the implications of the equations presented.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally do not reach consensus on the derivation of the current ratio I1/I2, and there are multiple competing views on how to approach the problem. Some participants agree on the expressions for equivalent inductance but differ in their interpretations and calculations.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved mathematical steps in deriving the current ratio and equivalent inductance, and some participants express uncertainty about the definitions and relationships between the variables involved, particularly regarding mutual inductance and its effect on the calculations.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students studying circuit theory, particularly those interested in the behavior of inductors in parallel configurations and the application of Kirchhoff’s laws in a.c. circuits.

  • #91
Ah okay, so like this?

Rearrange equation (1) for I1.
##U = L_1 I_1 + M I_2##
##I_1 = \frac {U-MI_2} {L_1}##

Replace I1 in equation (2) with the above.
##U = L_2 I_2 + M(\frac {U-MI_2} {L_1})##

Rearrange for I2, then replace I2 in equation (1) with the above?
 
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  • #92
That's the idea, yes.
 
  • #93
I'm sure i am being silly but what does Jw stand for?
 
  • #94
Spongecake said:
I'm sure i am being silly but what does Jw stand for?
##\sqrt{-1} \cdot \omega##
 
  • #95
Thank you gneill
 
  • #96
For part d) i have this (done on mathCAD) is this correct?
 

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  • #97
Looks okay to me.
 
  • #98
Brilliant Thank you
 
  • #99
hi bit of further guidance on part c would be much appreciated.
so far following on from post #91

U=L2i2+M((U-(Mi2))/L1

i am unsure if I'm correct in how I'm going about rearranging for i2 here's what I've got so far.

i2= ((U-M)/L2) +M((U-M)/L1) ? i have a feeling its way out.
 
  • #100
cablecutter said:
i2= ((U-M)/L2) +M((U-M)/L1) ? i have a feeling its way out.
Yeah, looks like something's gone wrong with your algebra. Try again, perhaps showing us your work step-by step.
 
  • #101
I'm unsure do i need to try and rearrange U=L2i2+M((U-Mi2)/L1
for i2?

or the original simultaneous equation (2) for i2?...
U = L2i2+Mi1
U-Mi1 = L2i2+Mi1-(Mi1)
(U-Mi1)/L2 = (L2i2)/L2
(U-(Mi1)/L2 = i2
 
  • #102
cablecutter said:
I'm unsure do i need to try and rearrange U=L2i2+M((U-Mi2)/L1
for i2?
Yes.
 
  • #103
so from U = L2i2+M(U-(Mi2))/L1

UL1 = L1L2i2+MU-M²i2

UL1-MU = L1L2i2-M²i2

UL1-MU = i2(L1L2-M²)

i2 = (UL1-MU)/(L1L2-M²)

am i right so far ?
 
  • #104
Looks fine.
 
  • #105
UL1 = L1L2i2+MU-M²i2

UL1-MU = L1L2i2-M²i2

UL1-MU = i2(L1L2-M²)

i2 = (UL1-MU)/(L1L2-M²)

am i right so far ?[/QUOTE]

now replace i2 in equation (1) with above? do i replace both i2 and i1 in equation 1 or just i2?
can end up with:

U = L1i1+M((UL1-MU)/(L1L2-M²))

or

U = L1(U-(M((UL1-MU)/(L1L2-M²))/L1) + M((UL1-MU)/(L1L2-M²)) ?

you can then minus the L1 to give

U = U-(M((UL1-MU)/(L1L2-M²)) + M((UL1-MU)/(L1L2-M²)) which will end up canceling out to 0=0?
 
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  • #106
I think we're losing the plot a bit here. Your goal is to find expressions for ##I_1## and ##I_2## starting with the equations

##U = L_1 I_1 + M I_2~~~~~~~## (1)
##U = L_2 I_2 + M I_1~~~~~~~## (2)

Two equations in two unknowns. Everything else is treated as known constants. This is a typical pair of simultaneous equations which you wish to solve for the variables ##I_1## and ##I_2##.

These equations have been solved in this thread already (granted the thread is getting rather large due to it being continuously "reawakened" by students with the same question and issues...), so I'm able to recap here without really giving anything away that hasn't already been presented.

Isolate ##I_1## equation (1):

##I_1 = \frac{(U - M I_2)}{L_1}##

Plug that expression for ##I_1## into equation (2):

##U = L_2 I_2 + M \frac{(U - M I_2)}{L_1}##

Solve for ##I_2##:

##I_2 = \frac{L_1 - M}{L_1 L_2 - M^2}##

Now you have an expression for ##I_2## that only involves the known values.

Do a similar thing to find the expression for ##I_1##, or use this ##I_2## result in equation (1) to eliminate ##I_2## there and solve for ##I_1##, or simply look at the symmetry of the two equations and write the result for ##I_2## by inspection from the result for ##I_2##.
 
Last edited:
  • #107
okay so from

U = L1i1+M((L1-M)/(L1L2-M²))

L1i1 = U-M ((L1-M)/(L1L2-M²)

i1 = (U-M((L1-M)/(L1L2-M²)))/L1

Thanks for your Help gneill
 
  • #108
on part c i follow it up to solving for i2 but what i can't understand is how the U has been dropped;

by my workings i get:

I2= (U(L1-M)/L2L1-M^2)

where as the final for your i2 has dropped the U ?

am i missing something obvious here, seems to happen when youve be staring at a question for so long.
 
  • #109
osykeo said:
on part c i follow it up to solving for i2 but what i can't understand is how the U has been dropped;

by my workings i get:

I2= (U(L1-M)/L2L1-M^2)

where as the final for your i2 has dropped the U ?

am i missing something obvious here, seems to happen when youve be staring at a question for so long.

gneill said:
I think we're losing the plot a bit here. Your goal is to find expressions for ##I_1## and ##I_2## starting with the equations

##U = L_1 I_1 + M I_2~~~~~~~## (1)
##U = L_2 I_2 + M I_1~~~~~~~## (2)

Two equations in two unknowns. Everything else is treated as known constants. This is a typical pair of simultaneous equations which you wish to solve for the variables ##I_1## and ##I_2##.

These equations have been solved in this thread already (granted the thread is getting rather large due to it being continuously "reawakened" by students with the same question and issues...), so I'm able to recap here without really giving anything away that hasn't already been presented.

Isolate ##I_1## equation (1):

##I_1 = \frac{(U - M I_2)}{L_1}##

Plug that expression for ##I_1## into equation (2):

##U = L_2 I_2 + M \frac{(U - M I_2)}{L_1}##

Solve for ##I_2##:

##I_2 = \frac{L_1 - M}{L_1 L_2 - M^2}##

Now you have an expression for ##I_2## that only involves the known values.

Do a similar thing to find the expression for ##I_1##, or use this ##I_2## result in equation (1) to eliminate ##I_2## there and solve for ##I_1##, or simply look at the symmetry of the two equations and write the result for ##I_2## by inspection from the result for ##I_2##.

osykeo, I have the exact same query, although I think I have got the answer. You have to do it as follows:

I1=(U(L2-M))/(L1*L2-M^2)
I2=(U(L1-M))/(L1*L2-M^2)
Hence:
U=Leq (I1+I2)
U = Leq (U(L2-M))/(L1*L2-M^2)+(U(L1-M))/(L1*L2-M^2)

U = Leq ((UL1+UL2-2MU)/(L1*L2-M^2)

Then rearrange this for Leq
 

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