Limitation to mass of currently forming stars?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the limitations on the mass of currently forming stars, particularly in the context of the presence of heavy elements and radiation from young stars. Participants explore the implications of these factors on stellar formation and mass limits, engaging in both theoretical and conceptual considerations.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question whether the presence of heavy elements and radiation from young stars can prevent stars from forming with masses greater than that of the Sun.
  • One participant argues that while radiation may ionize atoms, it has little effect on the nuclei, which would still be influenced by gravitational forces.
  • Another participant suggests that heavy metals impose an upper limit on the mass of newly-formed stars, but this limit is believed to be significantly higher than one solar mass and is dependent on the formation environment.
  • Concerns are raised about radiation pressure potentially preventing material from infalling towards the star, with emphasis on the role of electromagnetic forces in maintaining plasma neutrality.
  • One participant notes that despite the theoretical limits, there are many observed stars more massive than the Sun, suggesting that if a mass cut-off exists, it may not have been reached in the universe's history.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of heavy elements and radiation on stellar mass limits. There is no consensus on whether these factors definitively prevent the formation of massive stars, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of the interactions between radiation, heavy elements, and gravitational forces, indicating that assumptions about these relationships may vary. The discussion reflects uncertainty regarding the specific conditions under which stars form and the potential mass limits involved.

Holocene
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Is this true or false?

The state of our universe, as it is today, contains enough matter comprised of heavy elements, that the radiation from young stars will interact with this matter in such a way that it will be prevented from nearing the star, and thus the mass of the star, and all currently forming stars, will never be able to attain a mass as great as even our own sun.
 
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Holocene said:
Is this true or false?

The state of our universe, as it is today, contains enough matter comprised of heavy elements, that the radiation from young stars will interact with this matter in such a way that it will be prevented from nearing the star, and thus the mass of the star, and all currently forming stars, will never be able to attain a mass as great as even our own sun.

False. Photons interacting with atoms may ionize the atoms, but have essentially no effect on the nuclei, which would fall in due to gravity.
 
Holocene said:
The state of our universe, as it is today, contains enough matter comprised of heavy elements, that the radiation from young stars will interact with this matter in such a way that it will be prevented from nearing the star, and thus the mass of the star, and all currently forming stars, will never be able to attain a mass as great as even our own sun.

It is false, but only because of the last bit, "will never be able to attain a mass as great as even our own sun". The presence of heavy metals is thought to impose an upper limit on the mass of newly-formed stars, but the limit is much higher than a solar mass and depends on upon the environment in which the star formed.


mathman said:
False. Photons interacting with atoms may ionize the atoms, but have essentially no effect on the nuclei, which would fall in due to gravity.

The photons have momentum, so there will be radiation pressure. Regardless of whether this pressure is imparted to the electrons, atoms, or ions, it can still act to prevent infall or blow material outwards because electromagnetic forces are constantly acting to keep the plasma neutral.
 
Stars more massive than the Sun tend to burn out in a few million years. Yet we observe pleantly of stars more massive than the Sun. This implies they were formed recently. So you can think of your question in a statistical sense. If this cut-off were real, what are the odds in this 15-billion-year-old universe that the cut-off was reached in the last few million years?
 
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