Linear Charge Distribution on a Needle?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the linear charge distribution on a needle as presented in a paper by Griffiths. Participants explore the implications of modeling a wire as an ellipsoid and the resulting constant linear charge density, questioning the validity of this model in comparison to other shapes like cylinders.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Technical explanation, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the paper presents a constant linear charge density expression, ##\lambda(x)=\frac{Q}{2a}##, which does not depend on spatial coordinates, leading to confusion about its validity.
  • Another participant suggests that different shapes, such as cylinders and ellipsoids, yield different charge distributions, with ellipsoids potentially leading to a more uniform distribution due to their geometric properties.
  • Some participants argue that ellipsoids are mathematically special, providing uniform solutions in certain contexts, which may explain the constant charge density result.
  • Concerns are raised about the applicability of the ellipsoid model in this scenario, questioning whether it is appropriate to treat it as a one-dimensional line charge given the discrepancies in results compared to three-dimensional objects.
  • There is mention of the need for better computational simulations to explore these models further, indicating that advancements in technology could provide more insights.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the appropriateness of the ellipsoid model for representing linear charge distributions, with some supporting its mathematical validity while others challenge its physical applicability. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the correctness of the model.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the limitations of the ellipsoid model and its implications for charge distribution, noting that the assumptions made in the paper may not hold true in practical scenarios.

TheDemx27
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http://www.colorado.edu/physics/phys3320/phys3320_sp12/AJPPapers/AJP_E&MPapers_030612/Griffiths_ConductingNeedle.pdf

I was reading this paper, and was confused by a result in section 2-A. (Heck they even mention they weren't expecting it themselves). The purpose of the paper is to find the linear charge density for a wire and they use several models, the first of which treats the wire like an ellipsoid. They end up with an expression that doesn't depend on ##x##, ##y##, or ##z##, but only on ##Q## and ##a##:

##\lambda(x)=\frac{Q}{2a}##​

Meaning that the charge density is constant as you move along the x-axis.
Its pretty crazy how nicely things simplify in the paper.

Certainly there must be something wrong with this ellipsoid model, since we know that the charge is supposed to collect at the ends of an object. (right?) I mean, that's how static wicks on planes operate. Not only that, but every other model used in the paper produces a charge distribution you would expect: Higher charge density near the ends of the object.

I'm pretty sure that using ellipsoids like they did isn't a good way to model this judging by the discrepancy in the results. This is also coupled with the fact that it is counter intuitive for me.

Is this model really correct?
Are ellipsoids really mathematically special objects that have linear charge distributions?

Thanks in advance to anyone who can clear things up.
 
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I can imagine that different shapes lead to different answers. A cylinder clearly leads to a non-uniform distribution at least at the ends, but the ellipsoid has a different tilt for its surface (=electric fields on the surface are a bit tilted outwards), so more charge closer to the center (compared to the cylinder) sounds reasonable. Interesting to see a constant result.

Hmm, checking the ellipsoid probably requires reference 2.

Edit: A constant charge density plus two extra charges at the end does not give a uniform potential in between. The line has to be more complicated.

Computing power increased by orders of magnitude in the last 20 years, it should be possible to run much better simulations.
 
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Ellipsoids are indeed special. Polarization in a cylinder in a uniform E field has no analytic solution, likewise magnetization of a ferrous rod in uniform B. Demagnetizing fields and all sorts of approximations were invented (in days before computers) to handle it. A ferrous ellipsoid in uniform B has an exact and simple solution, however--B and M inside are perfectly uniform! It's not so surprising that rho is uniform as well.
 
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marcusl said:
Ellipsoids are indeed special... A ferrous ellipsoid in uniform B has an exact and simple solution, however--B and M inside are perfectly uniform! It's not so surprising that rho is uniform as well.

mfb said:
A cylinder clearly leads to a non-uniform distribution at least at the ends, but the ellipsoid has a different tilt for its surface (=electric fields on the surface are a bit tilted outwards), so more charge closer to the center (compared to the cylinder) sounds reasonable.

Thats good to know!

But back to the paper, is the ellipsoid model really applicable in this context? i.e. does it really make sense to treat the ellipsoid as a one dimensional line charge like they do by taking the ##\lim_{b, c \to 0}(\frac{Q}{2a})##? Sure it makes sense from a purely mathematical point of view, but the results are completely different, and its not even really a 3 dimensional figure anymore.
 

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