Lorentz Invariance as local limit of Bigger Manifold

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SUMMARY

The discussion centers on the hypothesis that Lorentz invariance may represent a lower limit of a larger manifold that possesses a privileged frame, potentially allowing for instantaneous correlations over vast distances, as suggested by Bell's theorem. Participants reference Popper's critique of Einstein's interpretation of special relativity, advocating for a reconsideration of absolute space and time. The conversation explores the logical and mathematical consistency of such a theory with Einstein's General Theory of Relativity (GTR) and the implications for non-locality in quantum mechanics.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of Lorentz invariance in the context of special relativity
  • Familiarity with Bell's theorem and its implications for quantum mechanics
  • Knowledge of General Theory of Relativity (GTR) and its principles
  • Basic comprehension of manifold theory in physics
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the implications of Popper's critique on modern physics interpretations
  • Explore theories of emergent quantum mechanics and their relationship to GTR
  • Investigate the concept of privileged frames in theoretical physics
  • Study the AdS/CFT correspondence and its relevance to quantum gravity
USEFUL FOR

The discussion is beneficial for theoretical physicists, quantum mechanics researchers, and anyone interested in the foundational aspects of relativity and the interplay between quantum mechanics and general relativity.

rogerl
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Is it possible that Lorentz invariance is just a lower limit of a larger manifold that has a priveleged frame?

Even if Bell's experiments can't transmit signal faster than light. The spirit of relativity is still violated by say instantaneous correlation between 10 billion light years. As Popper said "we have to give up Einstein’s interpretation of special relativity and return to Lorentz’s interpretation and with it to . . . absolute space and time. . . . The reason for this assertion is that the mere existence of an infinite velocity entails [the existence] of an absolute simultaneity and thereby of an absolute space. Whether or not an infinite velocity can be attained in the transmission of signals is irrelevant for this argument: the one inertial system for which Einsteinian simultaneity coincides with absolute simultaneity . . . would be the system at absolute rest – whether or not this system of absolute rest can be experimentally identified. (Popper 1982: xviii, 20)"

Has anyone encountered a theory wherein Lorentz Invariance is just a lower limit of a another bigger manifold that allows Bell-like instantaneous correlations? Of course by default the bigger manifold can't transmit signal. But supposed signal can be transmitted. We can modify the manifold in such a way that a signal that reaches the other party 10 billion light years away instantaneously in the bigger manifold will take time (equal to the time it takes light to travel) to reach the smaller manifold that is lorentz invariance? Has anyone heard such a thing or close to it?

Does anybody really think that instantaneous, non-local, space-like, universe-wide
relations of absolute simultaneity (and EPR causal correlations) are logically, mathematically and ontologically consistent with Einstein’s GTR?
 
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rogerl said:
Is it possible that Lorentz invariance is just a lower limit of a larger manifold that has a priveleged frame?

Yes.

http://arxiv.org/abs/0705.4652
http://arxiv.org/abs/0808.2495

rogerl said:
Has anyone encountered a theory wherein Lorentz Invariance is just a lower limit of a another bigger manifold that allows Bell-like instantaneous correlations? Of course by default the bigger manifold can't transmit signal. But supposed signal can be transmitted. We can modify the manifold in such a way that a signal that reaches the other party 10 billion light years away instantaneously in the bigger manifold will take time (equal to the time it takes light to travel) to reach the smaller manifold that is lorentz invariance? Has anyone heard such a thing or close to it?

Does anybody really think that instantaneous, non-local, space-like, universe-wide
relations of absolute simultaneity (and EPR causal correlations) are logically, mathematically and ontologically consistent with Einstein’s GTR?

I don't know of any case of emergent quantum mechanics. The relationship between GR and QM is still not understood (except in special cases like AdS/CFT or perturbative quantum gravity).
 

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