Lorentz invariance of Klein-Gordon Lagrangian

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the Lorentz invariance of the Klein-Gordon Lagrangian, specifically the expression \(\mathcal{L}=\frac{1}{2} \partial^\mu \phi \partial_\mu \phi - \frac{1}{2} m^2 \phi^2\). Participants explore various approaches to demonstrate this invariance under general Lorentz transformations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks guidance on how to prove the invariance of the Klein-Gordon Lagrangian under Lorentz transformations.
  • Another suggests applying a Lorentz transformation directly to see if the Lagrangian remains unchanged.
  • Multiple participants express uncertainty about the correct application of the transformation, particularly regarding the notation and the inverse transformation.
  • There are discussions about the definition of scalar field transformations and the implications of Taylor expansion around points.
  • Some participants critique the notation used, specifically the use of indices and the Einstein summation convention, indicating potential misunderstandings.
  • A later reply introduces a hint involving the properties of Lorentz transformations and their application to the calculation.
  • There is a question raised about the equivalence of different forms of scalar products involving indices, leading to further clarification on the summation convention.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correct method to prove the invariance. There are multiple competing views and uncertainties regarding the application of transformations and notation.

Contextual Notes

Participants express confusion over the notation and the implications of the Einstein summation convention, indicating that some assumptions may not be clearly defined. The discussion also highlights the complexity of handling transformations in the context of the Lagrangian.

ShayanJ
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I want to prove the invariance of the Klein-Gordon Lagrangian \mathcal{L}=\frac 1 2 \partial^\mu \phi \partial_\mu \phi-\frac 1 2 m^2 \phi^2 under a general Lorentz transformation \Lambda^\alpha_\beta but I don't know what should I do. I don't know how to handle it. How should I do it?
Thanks
 
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Well, I think the easiest way to do it would be to apply a Lorentz transformation and see that the Lagrangian doesn't change. Have you tried doing that?
 
Yeah, I tried but I don't know how should I apply it. Is the following correct?

<br /> \mathcal{L}^{&#039;}=\frac 1 2 \Lambda^\nu_\mu \partial^\mu[\phi^{&#039;}(\Lambda^{-1} x)] \Lambda^\mu_\nu \partial_\mu [\phi^{&#039;}(\Lambda^{-1} x)]-\frac 1 2 m^2 [\phi^{&#039;}(\Lambda^{-1} x)]^2<br />

If it is, how should I write \Lambda^{-1} x? The direct transformation is \Lambda_\mu^\nu x^\mu, what is the inverse transformation in component form?
Or maybe I only should write \Lambda^{-1}x=x^{&#039;} and then using \Lambda^\nu_\mu\partial^\mu=\partial^{&#039;\nu} and \Lambda^\mu_\nu\partial_\mu=\partial^{&#039;}_{\nu}, and the invariance is proved?
Or what?
 
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what is the definition of a scalar field transformation then? or try to expand it in taylor around x [I guess then you can reach a form of the same lagrangian + a total derivative term]
In any case there are some problems in your definition... you should avoid writting two summed indices the same...[in your case a mu pair should change... then you'll get the metric which will give you again the double partial derivative...
 
Shyan said:
Yeah, I tried but I don't know how should I apply it. Is the following correct?

<br /> \mathcal{L}^{&#039;}=\frac 1 2 \Lambda^\nu_\mu \partial^\mu[\phi^{&#039;}(\Lambda^{-1} x)] \Lambda^\mu_\nu \partial_\mu [\phi^{&#039;}(\Lambda^{-1} x)]-\frac 1 2 m^2 [\phi^{&#039;}(\Lambda^{-1} x)]^2<br />

If it is, how should I write \Lambda^{-1} x? The direct transformation is \Lambda_\mu^\nu x^\mu, what is the inverse transformation in component form?
Or maybe I only should write \Lambda^{-1}x=x^{&#039;} and then using \Lambda^\nu_\mu\partial^\mu=\partial^{&#039;\nu} and \Lambda^\mu_\nu\partial_\mu=\partial^{&#039;}_{\nu}, and the invariance is proved?
Or what?

If you just replace it with ##\partial^{\nu'}## and call it done, then you might as well have just said the Lagrangian is Lorentz invariant by inspection.

Maybe one can try this hint:

$$A^{\mu'}A_{\mu'}=\Lambda^{\mu'}_{~~\nu}A^\nu \Lambda^{\rho}_{~~\mu'} A_\rho=\Lambda^{\rho}_{~~\mu'}\Lambda^{\mu'}_{~~\nu}A^\nu A_\rho=\delta^{~~\rho}_{\nu}A^\nu A_\rho=A^\rho A_\rho$$

See how you can apply this to your calculation.
 
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Shyan said:
I want to prove the invariance of the Klein-Gordon Lagrangian \mathcal{L}=\frac 1 2 \partial^\mu \phi \partial_\mu \phi-\frac 1 2 m^2 \phi^2 under a general Lorentz transformation \Lambda^\alpha_\beta but I don't know what should I do. I don't know how to handle it. How should I do it?
Thanks

Start from the “transformation” of the scalar field
\phi ( x ) = \bar{ \phi } ( \bar{ x } ) . \ \ \ (1)
So, \phi^{ 2 } ( x ) = \bar{ \phi }^{ 2 } ( \bar{ x } ) and this takes care of the second term.

Now, differentiate (1) with respect to x^{ \mu } and use the chain rule:
\partial_{ \mu } \phi ( x ) = \frac{ \partial \bar{ \phi } ( \bar{ x } ) }{ \partial \bar{ x }^{ \rho } } \frac{ \partial \bar{ x }^{ \rho } }{ \partial x^{ \mu } } = \bar{ \partial }_{ \rho } \bar{ \phi } ( \bar{ x } ) \ \Lambda^{ \rho }{}_{ \mu } . \ \ \ (2)
Next, differentiate (1) with respect to x_{ \mu }:
\partial^{ \mu } \phi ( x ) = \frac{ \partial \bar{ \phi } ( \bar{ x } ) }{ \partial \bar{ x }^{ \sigma } } \frac{ \partial \bar{ x }^{ \sigma } }{ \partial x_{ \mu } } = \bar{ \partial }_{ \sigma } \bar{ \phi } ( \bar{ x } ) \ \Lambda^{ \sigma \mu } . \ \ \ (3)
Multiply (2) and (3) and use the defining property of the Lorentz transformation
\Lambda^{ \rho }{}_{ \mu } \ \Lambda^{ \sigma \mu } = \Lambda^{ \rho }{}_{ \mu } \ \Lambda^{ \sigma }{}_{ \nu } \ \eta^{ \mu \nu } = \eta^{ \rho \sigma } .

Sam
 
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Gosh I hate the notation ##x_\mu##... I would much rather write ##\partial^\mu=\eta^{\mu\nu}\partial_\nu## rather than ##\partial^\mu=\partial/\partial x_\mu##.
 
Matterwave said:
Gosh I hate the notation ##x_\mu##... I would much rather write ##\partial^\mu=\eta^{\mu\nu}\partial_\nu## rather than ##\partial^\mu=\partial/\partial x_\mu##.

Yes, hating it is a good practise. Ok, the equation below is for your taste :)

\partial^{ \mu } \phi ( x ) = \frac{ \partial \bar{ \phi } ( \bar{ x } ) }{ \partial \bar{ x }^{ \sigma } } \partial^{ \mu } \bar{ x }^{ \sigma } = \bar{ \partial }_{ \sigma } \bar{ \phi } ( \bar{ x } ) \Lambda^{ \sigma \mu } . \ \ \ (3)
 
Just one more thing.
Consider the quantity A^\mu B_\mu. Is it the same as A_\mu B^\mu?
This is how I tried to prove it:
A^\nu B_\nu=\eta_{\nu\mu}\eta^{\nu\mu}A_\mu B^\mu.
The problem is, \eta_{\nu\mu}\eta^{\nu\mu} is the twice contracted product of Minkowski metrics and is equal to \pm 2. But regardless of the fact that maybe A^\mu B_\mu=A_\nu B^\nu isn't true, a coefficient of two doesn't seem to be true!
 
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  • #10
No, you haven't understood the Einstein summation convention properly. Compare what you wrote with what's right:

A^{\nu}B_{\nu} = \eta^{\nu\alpha}A_{\alpha}B^{\mu}\eta_{\mu\nu}

See where you made the mistake.
 
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  • #11
avoid having summed indices more than once- that's a rule. Otherwise summation doesn't make much sense.
what you wrote would have to be:
A_{\nu} B^{\nu} = \eta_{\nu \mu} A^{\mu} \eta^{\mu \rho} B_{\rho} = \delta^{\rho}_{\mu} A^{\mu}B_{\rho} = A^{\mu} B_{\mu}
 
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