Lorentz Invariants and Field Strength Tensor Fuv

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The discussion centers on demonstrating that the quantities E^2 - c^2B^2 and cE·B are Lorentz invariant by expressing them as invariant contractions using the field strength tensor Fuv and the Levi-Civita symbol εuvab. Participants clarify that a Lorentz invariant quantity must not have free indices and explore how to correctly form contractions from Fuv and εuvab. The conversation highlights the importance of accurately relating the electric and magnetic fields to the components of Fuv. Participants work through the expressions, correcting mistakes and confirming that FuvFuv can be expressed in terms of E and B. Ultimately, the focus is on deriving the correct Lorentz invariant forms from the given tensors.
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Homework Statement



The Field strength tensor Fuv encodes the electric and magnetic fields via:
Ei=-cF0i, Bi=-1/2 eijkFjk, i=1,2,3 Show that E^2-c^2B^2 and cE.B are invariant under lorentze transformations, by writing them explicitly as invariant contractions using the tensors Fuv and euvab

Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution


What does write the explicitly as invariant contractions mean?
 
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jc09 said:

The Attempt at a Solution


What does write the explicitly as invariant contractions mean?

A Lorentz invariant quantity can't have any free index. A quantity like A_{\mu\nu\rho}v^\mu}B^{\nu\rho} would be invariant, but A_{\mu\nu\rho}B^{\nu\rho} would not.
 
ok so for the first one E^2-c^2B^2 how would I start the problem. I know the equation for E and B are given in terms of the metric tensor so I would write them out but what would be the next step
 
Well what sort of contractions can you form from F^{\mu\nu} and \epsilon_{\mu\nu ab}? Note that the quantities you're supposed to obtain are quadratic in the fields.
 
I know I can contract FuvUb=Va but not sure how to proceed at all
 
jc09 said:
I know I can contract FuvUb=Va but not sure how to proceed at all

The expression you've written has free indices \mu, \nu and b on the LHS and an index a on the RHS, so it is incorrect. Also U and V are undefined and have nothing to do with the question. You do not need any other tensors other than F^{\mu\nu} and \epsilon_{\mu\nu ab}. Try to form contractions that have no free indices. For example, \epsilon_{\mu\nu ab} \epsilon^{\mu\nu ab} is a Lorentz invariant, but it's not one of the ones you're looking for.
 
so does euvxy=euvexy make more sense? are these correct? I know these are still not what I used in the question but is the idea right here. Then FuvFuv
 
jc09 said:
so does euvxy=euvexy make more sense? are these correct? I know these are still not what I used in the question but is the idea right here. Then FuvFuv

sorry that isn't right I think maybe this is euveuvexyexy
 
\epsilon^{\mu\nu a b} is the Levi-Civita symbol, you might want to brush up on what it means here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levi-Civita_symbol You can't write \epsilon^{\mu\nu a b} =\epsilon_{\mu\nu} \epsilon_{ a b} for any definition of \epsilon_{\mu\nu}, the RHS does not have all of the symmetries that the LHS does.

I wrote the expression with 2 \epsilon's to illustrate a Lorentz-invariant combination, don't get hung up on trying to rewrite that. You mentioned F^{\mu\nu}F_{\mu\nu}. Why don't you try writing that in terms of E and B?
 
  • #10
hi so if I write FuvFuv in terms of E and B I get FuvFuv=FolFol+FijFij=cE.B is this correct?

Then to get the other one I can write 1/2euvxyFuvFxy in terms of E and B
 
  • #11
jc09 said:
hi so if I write FuvFuv in terms of E and B I get FuvFuv=FolFol+FijFij=cE.B is this correct?

No, that's not right. Remember that Ei=-cF0i, Bi=-1/2 eijkFjk, i=1,2,3.

Then to get the other one I can write 1/2euvxyFuvFxy in terms of E and B

That's one of the invariants that you need. You should see what expression that gives in terms of E and B.
 
  • #12
fzero said:
No, that's not right. Remember that Ei=-cF0i, Bi=-1/2 eijkFjk, i=1,2,3.



That's one of the invariants that you need. You should see what expression that gives in terms of E and B.

So for the first bit if I write FuvFuv=F0iF0i+FjkFjk is that better. sorry I'm having quite a lot of trouble with these
 
  • #13
jc09 said:
So for the first bit if I write FuvFuv=F0iF0i+FjkFjk is that better. sorry I'm having quite a lot of trouble with these

That part was fine, the part that was wrong was what you wrote for the E and B expression. You should use the relationships between E, B and the components of Fuv to explicitly compute that, don't just try to guess.
 
  • #14
so for F0iF0i does that equal -2/c E.B then to finish I add on the second part of it?
 
  • #15
ah wait sorry I see the error of my ways I had written down the second matrix wrong so I had B's where there were meant to be E's etc. Think I have the first one now.
 
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