Loss due to open channel to pipe flow transition

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of entrance losses when transitioning from an open channel to a pipe flow, specifically examining the equation hloss = K*(V2^2 - V1^2)/2g. Participants explore the derivation of this equation and its comparison to traditional entrance loss equations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Michelle questions the derivation of the entrance loss equation hloss = K*(V2^2 - V1^2)/2g, noting that she has typically seen entrance losses represented as K*(V^2)/2g.
  • Another participant cites the energy equation as the source of hloss = K*(V2^2 - V1^2)/2g, suggesting that the inclusion of channel flow velocity is necessary for this transition scenario.
  • Some participants express uncertainty, indicating that their references do not cover the specific situation of combined open channel and pipe flow.
  • Michelle provides additional context about her specific case involving an open channel discharging into a box culvert, referencing a book that discusses loss coefficients for transitions and expansions.
  • There is a mention of differing loss coefficients (K and KI) for contraction and expansion scenarios, with Michelle noting that her calculations yield unexpectedly high contraction losses compared to theoretical expectations.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the derivation of the entrance loss equation or the expected outcomes of contraction versus expansion losses. Multiple competing views and uncertainties remain regarding the application of the equations and the definitions of loss coefficients.

Contextual Notes

Some participants highlight limitations in their references, indicating a lack of coverage for scenarios involving both open channel and pipe flow transitions. There is also mention of unresolved mathematical steps and the need for further discussion on the implications of different loss coefficients.

miriza
Messages
3
Reaction score
0
Hi!

I have the following equation for the entrance loss from an open channel to a pipe, but I'm not sure how it was derived:

hloss = K*(V2^2 - V1^2)/2g

I have always seen entrance losses as: K*(V^2)/2g, but why is the channel flow velocity considered in the equation above.

Thanks, Michelle
 
Engineering news on Phys.org
hloss = K*(V2^2 - V1^2)/2g
Comes from the energy equation.

[itex]\frac{p_1}{\rho g}\,+\,\alpha_1\frac{\bar{V}^2}{2g}\,+\,z_1\,=\,\frac{p_2}{\rho g}\,+\,\alpha_2\frac{\bar{V}^2}{2g}\,+\,z_2\,+\,h_{l_T}[/itex] from Robert Fox & Alan MacDonald, Introduction to Fluid Mechanics, John Wiley & Sons, 1978.

K*(V^2)/2g
is used with respect to the entrance of the pipe. V is the mean velocity. Perhaps the K's are different (?). Some additional discussion is needed.
 
I can't say that any of my references have this situation. It's either open channel or pipe, not a combination. I will look around to see what I can find as well.
 
Fred and Astronuc:

Thanks for the help...

Just to add more info: The case I'm interested in is an open channel discharging into a box culvert and then back into an open channel.

I actually found a reference that has a similar equation, but I'm still not sure exactly how it was derived. The book is "Hydraulic Engineering" by Roberson, Cassidy and Chaudry (1988 Houghton Mifflin). There is a section on channel-flume transitions where it says:

*For an inlet transition (contraction): the loss would be KI * V^2/2g, where KI is the loss coefficient for the transition and V is the velocity of the downstream conduit (the highest mean velocity), which would be the pipe velocity in my case of channel to culvert flow.
*For an expansion, the head loss would be KE (V1^2-V2^2)/2g where KE is the loss coefficient for the expansion, V1 is the mean velocity at the upstream end (culvert in my case) and V2 is the mean velocity at the downstream end (open channel in my case).

Expansion losses in theory should be greater than contraction losses. However, when I use the 2 equations above I get much greater contraction losses (probably because there is only one velocity term in the contraction loss). I'm really lost here...any clue?

Thanks, Michelle
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K
  • · Replies 31 ·
2
Replies
31
Views
5K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
1K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
4K
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
Replies
2
Views
1K
Replies
0
Views
2K