Magnetism, electricity, and photons

  • #1
If photons are part of a magnetic field like electrons, which electrons can be read with an amp meter, what can measure or count photons? Electrons are not counted but the magnetic field changes when more current flows and the ammeter reads a change in the magnetic field.
What type of light are photons?
I've seen some of the folks in here talking about creating photons?
Energy can not be created nor destroyed, so are the photons redirected, collected, trapped, or redistributed, with a magnetic field?
Like measuring amperage, how do I measure photons? RF?
What would happen if you took an x-ray of a magnetic field?
I am trying to come up with ways to make electric motors more efficient and to devise a way to read current flow by measuring photons instead of amperage.
Ohms law doesn't incorporate photons. There is a lot of new information about power generation. It's not just an emf exciting electrons causing a chain reaction in a conductor, it's also photons, but how does a photon travel thru a solid?
 

Answers and Replies

  • #2
Drakkith
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
21,105
4,933
If photons are part of a magnetic field like electrons
Electrons are not part of the electromagnetic field like photons are.

what can measure or count photons?
Several different types of detectors are available. CCD or CMOS sensors are probably the most common devices out there, but there are a few others.

What type of light are photons?
Photons are the excitations of the electromagnetic field, of which visible light is merely a small sliver. Radio waves, microwaves, infrared radiation, UV radiation, X-rays, and gamma rays are all electromagnetic radiation, and all EM radiation is composed of photons.

I've seen some of the folks in here talking about creating photons?
Energy can not be created nor destroyed, so are the photons redirected, collected, trapped, or redistributed, with a magnetic field?
The photons are literally created. Energy conservation is not being violated because an external source of energy is used to create them.

I am trying to come up with ways to make electric motors more efficient and to devise a way to read current flow by measuring photons instead of amperage.
Ohms law doesn't incorporate photons. There is a lot of new information about power generation. It's not just an emf exciting electrons causing a chain reaction in a conductor, it's also photons, but how does a photon travel thru a solid?
Photons have nothing to do with electrical circuits except where a sensor or emitter absorbs or emits light or other EM radiation.
 
  • #3
Thank you, thank you for the responses. I hope you guys don't mind if I ask a lot of questions, I am trying my best to understand the reality of physics and thermodynamics. As an electrician I know theory, but have been researching the new information about how energy and transmission are produced. I am an entrepreneur and am always testing myself with new and innovative ways to make things more efficient, but don't know all the laws of physics as they do challenge even the best of the best. I feel that if new processes are not tried then you get nowhere. I am interested in Tesla and have researched his work, but this new understanding of the flow of electrons is really not as simple as it sounds. Photons and the way they coincide with electricity intrigues me and I want to understand more about it. Can you turn me on to a good read.
 
  • #4
Thank you, thank you for the responses. I hope you guys don't mind if I ask a lot of questions, I am trying my best to understand the reality of physics and thermodynamics. As an electrician I know theory, but have been researching the new information about how energy and transmission are produced. I am an entrepreneur and am always testing myself with new and innovative ways to make things more efficient, but don't know all the laws of physics as they do challenge even the best of the best. I feel that if new processes are not tried then you get nowhere. I am interested in Tesla and have researched his work, but this new understanding of the flow of electrons is really not as simple as it sounds. Photons and the way they coincide with electricity intrigues me and I want to understand more about it. Can you turn me on to a good read.
Is there a way to measure photons within a conductor when there is current flow, like an amp meter reads current flow?
There are photons in the conductor? In the magnetic field around the conductor with current flow? I am trying to come up with a new way to read voltage and amperage by photons? Is this a dumb idea?
 
  • #5
Drakkith
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
21,105
4,933
Photons and the way they coincide with electricity intrigues me and I want to understand more about it. Can you turn me on to a good read.
Photons and electricity only coincide in a few very specific situations, such as photovoltaics, so there's not much to read on the subject other than that.

Is there a way to measure photons within a conductor when there is current flow, like an amp meter reads current flow?
No, because low-energy photons cannot propagate inside a conductor, regardless of whether there is current flow or not. You'd have to generate photons in the x-ray and gamma ray ranges to get them to move through a conductor and even then they simply pass through, they don't follow the circuit like current does.

I am trying to come up with a new way to read voltage and amperage by photons? Is this a dumb idea?
Dumb? No. Valid? Also no. Not in the way you've presented here.
 
  • #6
Photons and electricity only coincide in a few very specific situations, such as photovoltaics, so there's not much to read on the subject other than that.



No, because low-energy photons cannot propagate inside a conductor, regardless of whether there is current flow or not. You'd have to generate photons in the x-ray and gamma ray ranges to get them to move through a conductor and even then they simply pass through, they don't follow the circuit like current does.



Dumb? No. Valid? Also no. Not in the way you've presented here.
I understand that current flow is not just excited electrons, but photons are what moves electrons, or that they are behind electron flow?
 
  • #7
Drakkith
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
21,105
4,933
I understand that current flow is not just excited electrons, but photons are what moves electrons, or that they are behind electron flow?
No, not really. The electric field driving the current through a circuit is not composed of photons. Photons exist as part of electromagnetic waves. They are what an EM wave interacts by to influence matter. And even then they only exist in the far-field portion of the EM field surrounding an electrical device, so even an AC circuit, which has changing electric and magnetic fields running through it, does not have photons propagating through the circuit.
 
  • #8
Are you absolutely sure that photons are not part of electron flow or excitation and chain reaction of electron flow?
 
  • #9
Drakkith
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
21,105
4,933
To the best of my knowledge, yes.
 
  • Like
Likes mfb and davenn
  • #10
Ibix
Science Advisor
Insights Author
2020 Award
7,396
6,481
You may have read about virtual photons having something to do with changing electromagnetic fields. This is an unfortunate case of pop science sources presenting a mathematical tool as something real. Actually, they are a mathematical trick used by physicists to organise their calculations. They aren't detectable or useable practically because they are simply an accounting trick - unfortunately, one that sounds cool so gets presented as more than that.

Edit: and it's not a mathematical tool you'd ever use to describe something as large as a wire, either, if I understand correctly. A couple of electrons interacting in free space, yes. A wire, no.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes mfb, davenn and OmCheeto
  • #11
I've got a design for a magnetic motor. If it runs how long will it last?
 
  • #12
Drakkith
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
21,105
4,933
I've got a design for a magnetic motor. If it runs how long will it last?
As long as you input energy to power it, it will last until something breaks or wears down.
 
  • Like
Likes Ibix and davenn

Related Threads on Magnetism, electricity, and photons

Replies
5
Views
3K
Replies
7
Views
834
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • Last Post
Replies
13
Views
1K
  • Last Post
Replies
1
Views
707
  • Last Post
Replies
9
Views
1K
Replies
25
Views
2K
Replies
10
Views
8K
Replies
3
Views
5K
Replies
7
Views
24K
Top