Matter Alignment: Magnatism Effects on Salt Water Flow

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on the potential effects of magnetic fields on the flow of salt water, specifically whether such fields could align water molecules to reduce resistance and enhance flow. Participants express skepticism about the feasibility of using magnetism to manipulate water molecules, noting that water is diamagnetic and does not respond significantly to magnetic fields. The conversation also touches on concepts like viscosity, laminar flow, and the challenges of moving through water, comparing it to navigating through a deck of cards. Ultimately, the consensus is that while reducing friction is possible, the idea of using magnetic fields to create pathways through water is unlikely to succeed due to the chaotic nature of liquid water molecules. The discussion concludes with a recognition of the limitations imposed by physics on these theoretical applications.
Tinman
Messages
30
Reaction score
0
Could a field of a certain.type of magnatism effect a giving area of salt water as to.either align or dispurse the water to more freely flow among them or slide between them .like a horizon of water molecules
 
Physics news on Phys.org
I'm sorry but I have no idea what you're asking.
 
Drakkith said:
I'm sorry but I have no idea what you're asking.
ok let's say moving through water is like pushing throught a deck of cards and that's why its so slown .. resistance is ther a way or possible way to turn the deck as to slide through the deck instead of aposing it
 
Oh, your wondering if you can use a magnetic field to reduce the viscosity of water?
 
Drakkith said:
Oh, your wondering if you can use a magnetic field to reduce the viscosity of water?
essentaly yes and no more to create a pathway through the particles rather than lessen the density of a givin area perhaps even align them to have them all point one direction with a charged surfaced of opposition to be slipped through persay
 
Perhaps you should investigate laminar flow "skin" or the ejection of air bubbles at the prow of your craft. I'm not sure that either would deal with what you have in mind, but it might be a starting point.
 
No I'm.sorry the.flow.skin.would.probably.be standard as well.as the bubble reduction. I'm referring. To rendering.such a divice as to ..how do you say pave the way ahead of.you . So that the water you are entering is predisposed to let.you.through it more easily not.the.exterior of the craft being modified to receive /create less friction/resistance kind of. The way supersonic jets have there lillte sound bubble popper :D an under water door opener
 
Is there some malfunction with your " . " key? It seems to pop up randomly. o_O
Anyhow, now that you've explained it better... the only thing that I can think of that might possibly do what you want is an extremely high-intensity ultrasonic beam of some sort. I doubt that even that would be effective, though.
And a jet's "sound bubble popper" is sheer muscle in the form of tremendous engines.
 
Danger said:
Is there some malfunction with your " . " key? It seems to pop up randomly. o_O
Anyhow, now that you've explained it better... the only thing that I can think of that might possibly do what you want is an extremely high-intensity ultrasonic beam of some sort. I doubt that even that would be effective, though.
And a jet's "sound bubble popper" is sheer muscle in the form of tremendous engines.
... the sonic boom and what design approaches might reduce it. ... most designs engineers are testing are needle-nosed and < yes key is buggy ty. And no wouldn't high intensity beam just shove particles out of the way it the " space key its playing with the. ..
 
  • #10
Tinman said:
wouldn't high intensity beam just shove particles out of the way
That's exactly what has to be done in order to accomplish what you want.
 
  • #11
reducing waters vascosity would reduce resistance ? and would the rite magnetic field focused disrupt the atoms infront of it? enuf to even have an effect. like when i cliff jumped 125 feet i threw rocks in first to lessen resistance?
 
  • #12
Danger said:
That's exactly what has to be done in order to accomplish what you want.
please exuse me building a house is as far as my science goes. i jusr had a few question about faster than sound speed under water wanted to understand the concept on a smaller level
 
  • #13
There's two main concerns here that I know of. Breaking the attraction between the molecules (and on the object moving through the water) and then moving them out of the way. The latter can be minimized by shape, just like an aerodynamic car encounters less wind resistance than a semi-truck shaped like a brick. The former is... more difficult. Much more difficult.

Tinman said:
essentaly yes and no more to create a pathway through the particles rather than lessen the density of a givin area perhaps even align them to have them all point one direction with a charged surfaced of opposition to be slipped through persay

I'm not sure this is possible. Water molecules aren't like playing cards. They aren't very big and in their liquid state they just move about randomly. It's more like trying to move through a million tiny, lopsided spheres. There's not really much you can do to align them all and I don't think you'd see any benefit even if you could. Aligning them would just place the + end of the molecules near the - end of another one, which strengthens their attraction.

Magnetic fields aren't the answer anyways. Water is an extremely weak diamagnetic material that barely responds to even strong magnetic fields.
 
  • #14
sorry for that yes now that are water iss all + to minus can't we do a angular skined vessled add to that micro magnets to help.further flow throw the water sort of channel it away after slightly pulling at the allinged - 's would increase overall -'s to be pulled
 
  • #15
No, the + and - are electrical charges, not magnet poles. Magnets wouldn't do anything.
 
  • #16
yes +and -electical charges can't atoms aranged and charged to have rotating magetic fields each opposite to the next
 
  • #17
cant some sort of information be tranferd.throufh.the.alligned electrical charges ? impact ?something??
 
  • #18
Tinman said:
yes +and -electical charges can't atoms aranged and charged to have rotating magetic fields each opposite to the next

Not in liquid water. The motions of the molecules are simply too chaotic.

Tinman said:
cant some sort of information be tranferd.throufh.the.alligned electrical charges ? impact ?something??

There's no way to align them.
 
  • #19
antiferromagnitism is what i refer to i think and the further manipulation of givin liquid
 
  • #20
even if you could slow them down
 
  • #21
Then you'd freeze them and you wouldn't have liquid water anymore, but ice.
 
  • #22
Drakkith said:
Then you'd freeze them and you wouldn't have liquid water anymore, but ice.
and water isn't antiferromagnetic liquid?
 
  • #23
No, it's diamagnetic as I said earlier. I'm not sure you can have an antiferromagnetic liquid since, by definition, antiferromagnetism involves molecules in an ordered arrangement which only occur in solids.
 
  • #25
I great fully thank you for the discussion and you have gave more patients than probably was required have a wonderfully time Drakkith.
 
  • #26
I don't know where you got your information from. That isn't the description from wiki's page on antiferromagnetism.
 
  • #27
The magnetic moments in atom.and.molecules.ussaualy.related
To.electrons.spin and.in opposite pattern
 
  • #28
Of course. What's your point?
 
  • #29
Yeah. That was my.point I.guess on some minimal scale can salt water be effected with antiferromagnatism if so could it be effected further .
 
  • #30
Sorry, dude, but if you insist upon trying to take a magnetic approach to it, you're doomed to failure. It's like trying to make a cow run faster by painting her horns green.
 
  • Like
Likes F.V
  • #31
Tinman said:
Yeah. That was my.point I.guess on some minimal scale can salt water be effected with antiferromagnatism if so could it be effected further .

No. Antiferromagnetism doesn't apply to water, it only applies to solid materials where molecules/magnetic grains can align in certain ways. Water is diamagnetic, not antiferromagnetic.
 
  • #32
Fine a metal cow with a magnet infont of ia hahah.
Danger said:
Sorry, dude, but if you insist upon trying to take a magnetic approach to it, you're doomed to failure. It's like trying to make a cow run faster by painting her horns green.
 
  • #33
Tinman said:
Fine a metal cow with a magnet infont of ia hahah.
I think that you missed the point of my post. :rolleyes:
 
  • #34
Drakkith said:
No. Antiferromagnetism doesn't apply to water, it only applies to solid materials where molecules/magnetic grains can align in certain ways. Water is diamagnetic, not antiferromagnetic.
so its just push them out of the way and tahts it then.hmm seems like there be more tjere than that
 
  • #35
Tinman said:
so its just push them out of the way and tahts it then.hmm seems like there be more tjere than that

There are ways to reduce the friction on the object moving through the water, but other than that you pretty much out of luck.
 
  • #36
i knew that. its all some crazy theory if a gravity drivin device could ever happen. its just that train has always had me wondering the magnetic one.
 
  • #37
Tinman said:
its just that train has always had me wondering the magnetic one.
If you're referring to "mag-lev", it has absolutely nothing to do with what you are suggesting.
 
  • #38
Mag Lev it is . however i didnt place the two in the same category .But 28 years ago a picture of a magnetic train won me an art award befor maglev was made and was wonder woth all the brains in the world why they haven't gone further with the aplication of electromagnetic fields .dont atoms and some molecule for a fleeting moment give off a faint magnetic pulse/field regardles of its material
 
  • #39
Tinman said:
Mag Lev it is . however i didnt place the two in the same category .But 28 years ago a picture of a magnetic train won me an art award befor maglev was made and was wonder woth all the brains in the world why they haven't gone further with the aplication of electromagnetic fields

Because there are limitations to what we can do with these fields based on the laws of physics and the cost/complexity of the device.

.dont atoms and some molecule for a fleeting moment give off a faint magnetic pulse/field regardles of its material

Both atoms and molecules have a magnetic field associated with the intrinsic spin of their component particles and the orbital momentum of their electrons, but they don't emit "magnetic pulses".
 
  • #40
And you can't use its own field against itself what about the.first layer of water how its more idk how you say dence ? Or positivly charged and how some water molecules are memory shapes an advantage surely can be taken.there?
 
  • #41
Tinman, I'm afraid we're probably going to spend more time correcting your misunderstandings of physics that discussing the question. I highly suggest getting a good grasp on the basics of electromagnetism and chemistry. That in itself would probably answer many of your questions.
 
  • #42
Your defiantly rite but standard physics don't apply to.magnetic fields.do they or electricity didn't Tesla proof that and yes current limitation are what they are but my sugjesting to harness an atoms power other than tearing it apart isn't that bad really
 
  • #43
Tinman said:
my sugjesting to harness an atoms power other than tearing it apart isn't that bad really
Yes, it is.
 
  • #44
Danger said:
Yes, it is.
(Phys.org)—Researchers from the University of Leipzig have found that doping very small flakes of graphite with water, then allowing it to dry, results in a material that behaves very much like a superconductor. The team, led by Pablo Esquinazi have written a paper describing their process and results and have had it published in the peer review journalAdvanced Materials. If their findings prove sound, the discovery would almost certainly revolutionize the electronics industry.A superconductor is a material that conducts electricity without resistance, which means no loss of energy; researchers have been searching for such a material that operates atroom temperature (many materials aresuperconductors at very cold temperatures) for a number of years without success. Much of the recent research in this area has focused on carbon atom based substances such as graphene, nanotubes and graphite because of their unique lattice structures, but thus far, no one has been able to figure out a way to use any of them to produce a material that superconducts at room temperature.
 
  • #45
As with the mag-lev, your entire latest post has nothing to do with the original subject.
 
  • #46
Danger said:
As with the mag-lev, your entire latest post has nothing to do with the original subject.
Its all related you.just fail to see it. A simple experiment to.support my magnetic assistance.water shedding take a magnet smooth exterior and say 6/8 in thick set it in a basin of water slightly deeper than magnets thickness it'll show.you how water does.react.to magnets either on magnetic scale minimal or electrons.in the water.building up around it pushing itself away from it
 
  • #47
Danger said:
As with the mag-lev, your entire latest post has nothing to do with the original subject.
And yes it did you just fail to see it
 
  • #48
 
Back
Top