(maybe) simple calculation question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a formula related to quantum mechanics, specifically concerning the scattering of an electron by an atomic nucleus. Participants explore the mathematical expressions involved in calculating the average squared charge radius and the implications of certain terms in the equations presented in a textbook.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the validity of the equation \(\int_0^\infty \varrho_p(R) R^4 dR = \langle R^2 \rangle\) and seeks clarification on its derivation.
  • Another participant provides a definition of the average squared charge radius and suggests that the absence of a factor of \(4\pi\) might be due to a specific notation used in the book.
  • A third participant expresses confusion regarding the presence of terms in the equations, suggesting that the first term relates to the entire atom while the second term pertains to a single electron, and questions whether this is merely a definition.
  • One participant references a formula for electron scattering and notes a Taylor expansion, indicating a realization that a previously overlooked line in the text clarifies the relationship between the terms.
  • The same participant acknowledges the possibility of typographical errors in the textbook but does not assert any definitive mistakes in the calculations presented.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the interpretation of the equations and the definitions involved. There is no consensus on the implications of the terms or the correctness of the formulas, as multiple interpretations and clarifications are proposed.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential issues with normalization and the definitions used in the equations, but these remain unresolved within the discussion.

maverick6664
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Now I'm reading a book QM, scattering problen when an electron is scattered by an atomic nucleus, and stuck at a simple formula; \int_0^\infty \varrho_p(R) R^4 dR = \langle R^2 \rangle, where \varrho_p(R) is the charge density at radius = R In this formula, electric charge unit e is omitted.

As a matter of course, 4\pi \int_0^\infty \varrho_p (R) R^2 dR = Z holds.

Will anyone tell me why the first equation holds?

Thanks in advance.
 
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The average value of the squared charge radius over a volume is defined as <r^2>=\int r^2\rho d^3r/\int\rho d^3r=\int r^2\rho d^3r/q.
The volume differential is d^3r=r^2drd\Omega. The angular integral gives a factor of 4\pi, so the result should be
<r^2>=(4\pi/q)\int_0^\infty r^4\rho dr. Your book is probably considering unit charge. The absence of the 4\pi factor could be due to an unusual use of rationalized notation. Maybe the wave function is normalized to 1/4\pi.
 
I first thought that way, but what annoys me is, in that book, this is written:

4\pi \int_0^\infty \rho(R)R^2 dR - \frac {2\pi}{3}s^2 \int_0^\infty \rho(R)R^4 dR \equiv Z - \frac{2\pi}{3}s^2 \langle R^2 \rangle

So 4\pi isn't normalized, and that charge number Z isn't present in the second term...? or is it just a definition?
 
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From what you write, it looks to me like the first term is an effect of the whole atom, while the second term is due to one electron in the atom.
The factor of s^2/6 in the second term must come from the particular spin-orbital state of that electron. Tell me the name of the book, and
I'll look at it when I get a chance.
 
This appears in a calculation to show electron scattering with small momentum transfer to atomic nuclei will give the mean quadratic radius.
Original formula is

F(s) = 4\pi/s \int \varrho(R) \sin(sR) R dR

and using Taylor expansion

\sin(sR) \approx sR - (sR)^3/3! \cdots

Thank you!

edit:
oops! My bad! After these formulae, I see

F(s) = 4\pi \langle R \rangle - 2\pi/3 s^2 \langle R^2 \rangle \cdots

(I was missing this one line!) So it may be just a typo and this final formula makes sense! This book is "Quantum Mechanics: An introduction" by Greiner, page 320-321. I have found some trivial typos in this book which are easy to spot and correct, but never seen a serious mistake or miscalculation.

Thanks!
 
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