Michael Jackson rushed to hospital

  • #126
Borek
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I have seen small part of the practice tapes today - while he wasn't in particularly bad shape, he didn't look well to me. Thin and anemic.

Sure, he was 50, hard to be in the same shape as in eighties.
 
  • #127
turbo
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MJ downloads are at an all-time high. I don't know how long that might continue (fed by "tribute" programs pushed by the people involved in his estate and his record contracts.), but it will run for a while. With money coming in from this and his share of the Sony/Apple/Beatles thing, his estate should do well, and it may have a chance to grow once mr spendthrift isn't wandering around pricey places pointing his finger and blowing $1/2 M at a time.
 
  • #128
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The man is an American icon. I'm sure that given time his work will recoup any debt he owed and continue to make a hefty profit for whomever holds the rights to his work. Maybe Sir Paul McCartney should make an offer.
 
  • #129
Now that MJ is gone, a lot of unreleased material will start hitting the market, just like what happened after Jimi's death. MJ's estate after his death may be worth far more than it ever was during his life. Some people will make millions from only being periphially involved in the resolution of that fortune. I hope his mother is an honest and honorable person, though I am a bit disconcerted to find that MJ wanted Dianna Ross as the back-up guardian. Who's next? Elizabeth Taylor? He should at least have specified people that the could (1) trust, and could (2) expect to live until his kids' majority.
So it turns out that there were apparently several unrecorded songs from each album he put out. Having been a perfectionist his is said to have cut at least as many unrecorded tracks per album as there were on the final product.


Diana Ross is apparently a life long friend of Jackson's so I assume he trusts her. The surrogate has also contacted her lawyers to see about challenging for custody though since she has already completely given up her rights as a parent in court she isn't expected to have much luck.
 
  • #130
Ivan Seeking
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Well, I must say that I have a very hard time equating the man portrayed by the media with person described today by those who actually knew him. Also, his global influence was amazing to say the least. Even in places like Namibia, work stopped and workers gathered around TV screens to watch the Jackson memorial service. CNN just announced that as many as 1 billion people watched. Only now am I beginning to realize just how big and influencial he really was. He was also touted as being incredibly generous - I think someone even claimed that he had given more to charitable causes than any other superstar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFWVgXnHn1U

That sure sounds like the truth to me.
 
  • #131
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That whole thing reeked of an excuse for someone to make money.

And I was gonna watch Jeopardy, but that was on instead. I was watching for like a minute and it was so sappy I was about to throw up. People outside watching a big screen, waving their arms to the music. Before I turned off the TV, I felt I had to get as far away from that station as possible, so I went up to like channel 90. That's how sappy it was.
 
  • #132
Ivan Seeking
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That whole thing reeked of an excuse for someone to make money.
Who made money? To the best of my knowledge that is absolutely false. The fact is that the organizer said that everyone including the superstars were glad to do whatever they could to help. Also, given that something around 1 billion watched, he was indeed loved around the world - perhaps as much as anyone alive today.
 
  • #133
Ivan Seeking
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Little Richard confirmed that that when Jackson bought the rights to his music - a part of the deal that got him 50% ownership in the Beatles music - Jackson went to Richard and told him what a tremendous influence he had been to Jackson and music generally. Jackson then gave Richard the rights to his music again as a show of appreciation.
 
  • #134
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I've read that there exist certain very powerful drugs that have the same effect as anesthesia but which will not depress your breathing. These are used by special forces and the secret services but are unknown to the general medical profession. An example of such a drug is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolokol-1" [Broken].

Perhaps people like Jackson who have severe sleeping problems should be given access to such drugs. Such drugs could perhaps also be used instead of the regular anesthesia drugs so that people do not need to be on a ventilator while being operated on.
 
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  • #135
Moonbear
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I've read that there exist certain very powerful drugs that have the same effect as anesthesia but which will not depress your breathing. These are used by special forces and the secret services but are unknown to the general medical profession. An example of such a drug is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kolokol-1" [Broken].
You're citing a Wiki article that basically says little else is known about it other than it renders people unconscious for several hours as your basis that it doesn't depress breathing?

Perhaps people like Jackson who have severe sleeping problems should be given access to such drugs. Such drugs could perhaps also be used instead of the regular anesthesia drugs so that people do not need to be on a ventilator while being operated on.
Other anesthetic agents don't usually require a ventilator either. You just have to monitor the dosage very carefully. Anyone undergoing anesthesia is going to be intubated to ensure there is airway control in case they do get too much of the drug and stop breathing on their own, but in an ideal situation, they continue to breathe unassisted. The reason these drugs are administered by trained professionals is that there is very little margin for error, and sometimes you do need to continually adjust doses during a procedure to maintain a surgical plane of anesthesia (which is different from just sedating someone) without overdosing.

Anesthetic agents are also pretty harsh on other organ systems, especially the liver. It's not a problem if you're just undergoing anesthesia once, but it's not safe for frequent exposure.

On the topic of the memorial, I don't know why so many people needed to gawk at that. People who might pass up going to a memorial for someone they actually knew would attend one for someone they only have seen or heard on TV or radio. It seems more a commentary on screwed up priorities. Until I read this thread tonight, I completely forgot it was going on today. I worked late and wasn't following any news today. I figure, whatever the family wanted, it's their call. If they wanted it to be a big, public memorial/funeral service, fine.
 
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  • #136
Well, I must say that I have a very hard time equating the man portrayed by the media with person described today by those who actually knew him.
My roommate and I have several friends in common. They all know about how he has lied to me, stolen from me, and just leeched off of me in general for the last year but they are still friends with him and will say nice things about him.

I would not necessarily trust anyones friends to portray them accurately especially when they are talking about their friend who just died.
 
  • #137
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You're citing a Wiki article that basically says little else is known about it other than it renders people unconscious for several hours as your basis that it doesn't depress breathing?
I also read about it here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2004/moscowtheatretrans.shtml

As you write, the dose for ordinary anesthesia is critical, but that, according to the article, makes it impossible for ordinary anesthesia to be used as a substance to put people to sleep in situations like the Moskou Theatre Siege.
 
  • #138
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Who made money? To the best of my knowledge that is absolutely false.
I didn't state it as it were a fact, so I'm not sure how an opinion can be false.
I'm sure you liked Michael Jackson. I did too. And I'm not attacking him. I'm just questioning the intentions and motives of certain people involved in that show.
 
  • #139
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I didn't state it as it were a fact, so I'm not sure how an opinion can be false.
I don't know that I'd say an opinion is necessarily "false" but there are certainly uninformed and unsubstantiated opinions. Which, I guess hold the same weight as if they were "false".

Now, you might have suggested you were speculating. That has the built-in test of pending further information gathering.
 
  • #140
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Michael Jackson's ghost caught at Neverland Ranch on Larry King Live!

http://www.fox8.com/wjw-news-michael-jackson-ghost,0,3483897.story [Broken]


Fast forward to 8:20
 
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  • #141
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I don't know that I'd say an opinion is necessarily "false" but there are certainly uninformed and unsubstantiated opinions. Which, I guess hold the same weight as if they were "false".
That could only be true if there was evidence to the contrary. Unsubstatiated opinions aren't automatically false by default until proven true.
 
  • #142
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More spooky Michael Jackson:

-- Michael Jackson signed his will on 7/7/02.
-- Michael Jackson's memorial was on 7/7/09 ... exactly 7 years after the will was signed.
-- Michael Jackson's two biggest hits -- "Black & White" and "Billie Jean" -- were each #1 for 7 weeks.
-- Michael Jackson's three biggest albums -- "Thriller," "Bad" and "Dangerous" -- each produced 7 top 40 hits.
-- Michael Jackson was the 7th of 9 children.
-- Michael Jackson was born in 1958 ... 19 + 58 = 77
-- Michael Jackson died on the 25th ... 2 + 5 = 7
-- Michael Jackson has 7 letters in his first and last name.


http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/07/michael-jackson-7
 
  • #143
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That could only be true if there was evidence to the contrary. Unsubstatiated opinions aren't automatically false by default until proven true.
Ah, but I didn't say that unsubstantiated opinions were automatically false. I said they held the same weight.
 
  • #144
turbo
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More spooky Michael Jackson:

-- Michael Jackson signed his will on 7/7/02.
-- Michael Jackson's memorial was on 7/7/09 ... exactly 7 years after the will was signed.
-- Michael Jackson's two biggest hits -- "Black & White" and "Billie Jean" -- were each #1 for 7 weeks.
-- Michael Jackson's three biggest albums -- "Thriller," "Bad" and "Dangerous" -- each produced 7 top 40 hits.
-- Michael Jackson was the 7th of 9 children.
-- Michael Jackson was born in 1958 ... 19 + 58 = 77
-- Michael Jackson died on the 25th ... 2 + 5 = 7
-- Michael Jackson has 7 letters in his first and last name.


http://www.tmz.com/2009/07/07/michael-jackson-7
OMGZ! And there were seven days in each week that he was alive. I'm scared!
 
  • #145
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OMGZ! And there were seven days in each week that he was alive. I'm scared!
hehe It's still fun to suspend your belief a little bit.
 
  • #146
Ivan Seeking
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I didn't state it as it were a fact, so I'm not sure how an opinion can be false.
My opinion is that you are being unduly cynical.

I'm sure you liked Michael Jackson.
Actually, I wouldn't say I was ever a fan. Also, the legal issues certainly made him look guilty. That combined with his odd look pretty much put him in the freak catagory for me. But because of what I have heard from his friends and family, I realized that my impressions were probably not an accurate representation of the man.

I did too. And I'm not attacking him. I'm just questioning the intentions and motives of certain people involved in that show.
Perhaps, but what I heard was a lot of heart-felt love and affection. No one was charged an admission fee; no deals were cut with the media [broadcast on most stations]; there was no time to cut any big deals in advance; there were far too many stars for anyone of them to be paid well for their time. While every bit of MJ material will surely be marketed, this was such a public event that it is hard to see where anyone stands to make any real money from this. Beyond that, it is a drop in the bucket. However, I did think it was extremely well done and respectable.

I have learned that I really like a few songs by MJ that I didn't even know were his. :biggrin:
 
  • #147
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Ah, but I didn't say that unsubstantiated opinions were automatically false. I said they held the same weight.
If it holds the same weight as being false, then it would be an equivalent to being false, which would basically mean it's false. Sounds like it's just a roundabout way of saying it's false.
My opinion is that you are being unduly cynical.
Possibly. But it just seems to me that ever since he died, people came out of the woodwork trying to make some money from it. Like people fighting over his money and all these people buying his CD's, hoping they'll one day be worth money. And I'll be skeptical of anything his dad is involved in. That dude is crooked.
I have learned that I really like a few songs by MJ that I didn't even know were his.
On a side note, I realized at work today that as famous as Janet Jackson is, I can't name a single song of hers.
 
  • #148
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If it holds the same weight as being false, then it would be an equivalent to being false, which would basically mean it's false. Sounds like it's just a roundabout way of saying it's false.
No. If an unsubstantiated opinion holds the same weight as a falsehood, then it has the same merit. I'm not saying they are the same thing, because, if unsubstantiated opinion = false information then false information would have to = unsubstantiated opinion. One could have sources for false information and therefore some substantiation and still be false. The reverse doesn't hold.

If UP = F but F =/ UP then UP =/ F

What I'm saying is that they are equally without value. Is that more clear?


On a side note, I realized at work today that as famous as Janet Jackson is, I can't name a single song of hers.
What Have You Done for Me Lately? :biggrin:
 
  • #149
Ivan Seeking
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Wow! I never realized just how badly he was burned.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2lZuw3j3ro
 
  • #150
Ivan Seeking
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Another strange tidbit in the news.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ifsyjzCWgsw
 

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