Modified sine wave vs pure sine wave inverter

Click For Summary
SUMMARY

The discussion focuses on the differences between modified sine wave and pure sine wave inverters, particularly in the context of a PV-pump standalone system. Key concerns include the high total harmonic distortion (THD) of modified sine wave inverters, which can reach around 22%, and potential issues with devices that rely on zero crossings for timing. Participants emphasize the importance of ensuring that connected equipment can handle the modified sine wave output, as not all devices are compatible. Additionally, the steep rise in voltage (dV/dt) associated with modified sine wave inverters is highlighted as a potential risk for overheating in motor applications.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of inverter types: modified sine wave vs. pure sine wave
  • Knowledge of total harmonic distortion (THD) and its implications
  • Familiarity with induction motors and their startup characteristics
  • Basic principles of photovoltaic (PV) systems and MPPT (Maximum Power Point Tracking)
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the compatibility of specific devices with modified sine wave inverters
  • Learn about the implications of total harmonic distortion (THD) on electrical equipment
  • Investigate the NEMA KVA Code for induction motors to understand startup current requirements
  • Explore the benefits of using pure sine wave inverters in solar applications
USEFUL FOR

Engineers, solar energy enthusiasts, and anyone involved in designing or implementing PV systems with AC pumps, particularly those considering inverter options and motor compatibility.

Axe199
Messages
47
Reaction score
0
i was desigining a simple ( simple as in no MPPT) PV-pump standalone system, and we decided on using an AC-pump, so while i was searching for inverters i noticed the remarkable difference in price ranges, so i started to read about the difference between the two, so far the disadvantages of the modified sine wave i found online is the relatively high THD (around 22%) and the issue with devices using 0 crossings for timing for example.
my question is: is there any other problems i should i be aware off , even if it's not related to the pump application, i want to know just in case i want to use it in any future application.
one particular thing i had in mind is the steep rise in voltage, the one pointed in the picture, is that wave form will be the same in real life, or is this just an ideal form. If this is real, will this high dV/dt cause any trouble?
 

Attachments

  • msw.jpg
    msw.jpg
    10.8 KB · Views: 690
Engineering news on Phys.org
If it causes a problem it would be overheating in the pump's motor. However, if the pump power is not close to the motor's rated power, then heating is probably less of a problem. I'm thinking that a 1/2 HP pump probably has a 1 HP motor rather than a 1/2 HP motor just to stay away from the limit, and because it doesn't cost that much more.

If you have no controller at all, then make sure that you're in the neighborhood of the MPPT point anyhow in both bright sunlight and on cloudy days. Extremes in voltage or current don't use your panels efficiently. The point is the knee of the curve.

Solar-Cell-IV-curve-with-MPP.png
 

Attachments

  • Solar-Cell-IV-curve-with-MPP.png
    Solar-Cell-IV-curve-with-MPP.png
    6 KB · Views: 935
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: sophiecentaur
Axe199 said:
my question is: is there any other problems i should i be aware off , even if it's not related to the pump application, i want to know just in case i want to use it in any future application.
yes, just be aware of what you are connecting the inverter to ... not all equip likes a rough square wave (mod-sine).
They must be supplied with a true sine wave AC voltage.
If you had a piece of equip you wanted to use with the mod-sine inverter, just do some research to make sure it can handle itDave
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: sophiecentaur
Axe199 said:
simple as in no MPPT
Are you really so limited in your available money for this project? I can't find any mention of the ball park figure for the power you are dealing with - except for the example @anorlunda gave. The actual figures are very relevant in almost any Engineering project on any scale.
 
Really not too many details given, but - some VFDs ( Variable frequency motor drives) allow for a DC input. You do not mention what your solar set up is, but this may the say to go as starting a pump / motor against a regular inverter's output can be difficult.
 
Axe199 said:
one particular thing i had in mind is the steep rise in voltage, the one pointed in the picture, is that wave form will be the same in real life, or is this just an ideal form. If this is real, will this high dV/dt cause any trouble?
An induction motor ought to tolerate that waveform. It's inductive so will smooth out the current wave somewhat.
Beware of non-dimmable LED or CFL light bulbs with that voltage wave - it resembles a dimmer.

See if your pump motor has a "NEMA KVA Code" letter.
Induction motors draw several times rated current during startup. 5x is not unusual and 10x is not unheard of.. the code letter tells you what to expect.
Check your proposed inverter's datasheet carefully to make sure you're buying enough 'oompf' to start your motor.

upload_2018-2-11_19-43-35.png

table courtesy these guys https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/locked-rotor-code-d_917.html
old jim
 

Attachments

  • upload_2018-2-11_19-43-35.png
    upload_2018-2-11_19-43-35.png
    2.8 KB · Views: 568
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: dlgoff

Similar threads

  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
16
Views
3K
Replies
38
Views
5K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
4K
  • · Replies 39 ·
2
Replies
39
Views
5K
Replies
3
Views
17K
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
4K
Replies
21
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
2K