News Moscow Subway bombings kill 35+ civilians

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At least 38 civilians were killed and over 60 injured in two suicide bombings on the Moscow Metro, believed to be carried out by female attackers. No group has claimed responsibility for the attacks, which occurred during the busy morning rush hour. Discussions around the bombings have highlighted the ongoing conflict between Russia and Chechen rebels, with some expressing hope for a strong Russian response. The tragic nature of such attacks often leads to a disconnect between the reality of violence and public perception, as media coverage can sanitize the impact of these events. The incident has reignited debates about the historical tensions between Russia and Chechnya, underscoring the complexity of the conflict.
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At least 38 people were killed and more than 60 injured in two suicide bomb attacks on the Moscow Metro during the morning rush hour, officials say.

Female suicide bombers are believed to have carried out the attacks on trains that had stopped at two stations in the heart of the Russian capital.

No group has yet claimed responsibility for being behind the attacks. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8592190.stm"


I sincerely home the Chechen rebels get crushed with the full might of mother Russia. Religion of peace and prosperity my @@@.

RIP to the fallen civilians in this horrible attack by soulless animals.
 
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I liked the way both Putin and Dmitry said "We will find and destroy them all." I don't know if it is the translation or they just said that way: very direct, clear, blunt and strong response.
 
Lol, love how you continue the soulless animal less than human tidbit. :smile:

But yeah I just saw this on the news. Actually it's still on as I'm typing this, they are showing armed military and police forces in American subways as a precaution pressumably.

It's always sad when these events happen but I highly doubt in my lifetime they will come to an end.

One sad thing about these events is that those of us who just live their peaceful lives at home don't actually register what's going on at all. We see normally censored images on the News and read about x amount of deaths. I've changed this perspective after seeing leaked images of various events that were editted when they went on the News. It made these types of situations much more tragic IMO.

For instance in this case 35+ civilians dead in Moscow subway bombing. You see images on the news of the wreckage and some armed guards walking around. You think 'oh my god that's so sad...' next up on the TV is a Doritos commercial, maybe you're still thinking about those horrible terrorist and how sad the event is but it's not TRULY registering that those individual people are truly dead from that explosion.

I agree with you though that I hope KARMA comes full circle a butt rapes these rebels, each one, 1000x more viciously than the attrocities they've committed.
 
zomgwtf said:
I agree with you though that I hope KARMA comes full circle a butt rapes these rebels, each one, 1000x more viciously than the atrocities they've committed.

How about Russian atrocities in Chechnya? :biggrin:
 
Russia needs to let Chechnya go so they can control the border better. Right now Chechnya terrorists have free rein in the country.
 
MotoH said:
I sincerely home the Chechen rebels get crushed with the full might of mother Russia. Religion of peace and prosperity my @@@.

RIP to the fallen civilians in this horrible attack by soulless animals.

Right, because 'mother Russia' has historically been nice to its boarder nations (and it's own citizens, for that matter) :rolleyes:. Google: Gulag.
 
MotoH said:
I sincerely home the Chechen rebels get crushed with the full might of mother Russia.
Alternatively they could just invade some random 3rd country that has oil.
 
rootX said:
I liked the way both Putin and Dmitry said "We will find and destroy them all." I don't know if it is the translation or they just said that way: very direct, clear, blunt and strong response.

I'm cool with that. They should be crushed like (yummy) Doritos.
 
rootX said:
How about Russian atrocities in Chechnya? :biggrin:

Well, one group is going to get butt raped pretty hardcore with a good dose of KARMA. :wink: as of right now I think it shuold be the rebels that receive this dosage of karma rape. We'll have to see how Russia responds now won't we?
 
  • #10
Cyrus said:
Right, because 'mother Russia' has historically been nice to its boarder nations (and it's own citizens, for that matter) :rolleyes:. Google: Gulag.

Because this is still Soviet Russia we are talking about here. /sigh.
 
  • #11
zomgwtf said:
Well, one group is going to get butt raped pretty hardcore with a good dose of KARMA. :wink:
Yes, a lot of Chechen women and children. Unless of course we supply the Russians with some of those smart bombs that only hit committed terrorists, use whatever depleted uranium isotope only poisons soldiers, and mount the first effective humanitarian aid program during a war.
 
  • #12
MotoH said:
Because this is still Soviet Russia we are talking about here. /sigh.

Let's make thoughtful posts, mkay? Thanks, champ. :wink:
 
  • #13
Cyrus said:
Let's make thoughtful posts, mkay? Thanks, champ. :wink:

How does something that a corrupt government did have anything to do with a terror attack on innocent civilians? Keep the thread on topic.Right after the second blast, the main thought was that it was an AQ operation because most of the AQ suicide bombings are multiple attacks, and the Chechens have mostly been single attacks.

A sad day indeed.

Edit:

From some Russians I have heard that the trains were up and running within 2 hours. Good way to show that a terrorist attack will not throw them into a frenzy.
 
  • #14
MotoH said:
How does something that a corrupt government did have anything to do with a terror attack on innocent civilians? Keep the thread on topic.

Right after the second blast, the main thought was that it was an AQ operation because most of the AQ suicide bombings are multiple attacks, and the Chechens have mostly been single attacks.

A sad day indeed.

The point is that, the Russians have not been nice to the Chechens. Stop being myopic with your 'mother Russia' will teach them a lesson rhetoric: it's nonsense.
 
  • #15
Cyrus said:
The point is that, the Russians have not been nice to the Chechens. Stop being myopic with your 'mother Russia' will teach them a lesson rhetoric: it's nonsense.

And the Chechens haven't been nice to the Russians. The thing is, is that the Chechens are a rebel force, and subsequently are not fighting as a standing army. If the two were to leave each other alone, we wouldn't have a problem (obviously) But as of lately, every time things start to cool down a fraction of a degree, the Chechens start it up again.
 
  • #16
MotoH said:
And the Chechens haven't been nice to the Russians. The thing is, is that the Chechens are a rebel force, and subsequently are not fighting as a standing army. If the two were to leave each other alone, we wouldn't have a problem (obviously) But as of lately, every time things start to cool down a fraction of a degree, the Chechens start it up again.

It's a real tough spot because the Chechens and southern Russian territories are pretty much blacklisted from the rest of Russia. They have extreme difficulty in finding jobs and getting decent education. However if the Chechens are given independence I would it wouldn't stop the attacks as they will always seek revenge.
 
  • #17
MotoH said:
And the Chechens haven't been nice to the Russians. The thing is, is that the Chechens are a rebel force, and subsequently are not fighting as a standing army. If the two were to leave each other alone, we wouldn't have a problem (obviously) But as of lately, every time things start to cool down a fraction of a degree, the Chechens start it up again.

Yes, because life is that simple.
 
  • #18
The retaliation will be epic.
 
  • #19
Cyrus said:
The point is that, the Russians have not been nice to the Chechens.

Are you saying that Russians deserved to be killed? Do you apply the same "moral standards" to the victims of 9/11 attacks and terrorist bombings in Israel, Britain, Spain,..?
 
  • #20
meopemuk said:
Are you saying that Russians deserved to be killed? Do you apply the same "moral standards" to the victims of 9/11 attacks and terrorist bombings in Israel, Britain, Spain,..?

I never said anything of the sort: I would appreciate it if you do not put words into my mouth.

If there is something about my posts you do not understand, simply ask.
 
  • #21
cronxeh said:
The retaliation will be epic.

This was not the deadliest terrorist attack in Russia's modern history. 170 people were killed in a Moscow theater in 2002. There were 334 victims of the Beslan school siege in 2004. So, I don't think that this time the response will take some epic proportions.
 
  • #23
Greg Bernhardt said:
However if the Chechens are given independence I would it wouldn't stop the attacks as they will always seek revenge.

Actually, Chechens enjoyed de facto independence from Russia in 1997-1999. During that time they attacked neighbouring Dagestan and started an apartment bombing campaign throughout Russia. This was put to an end by the 2nd Chechen war. However terrible yesterday's bombings are, the overall situation in the Caucasus is much better now than it was 10 years ago.
 
  • #24
meopemuk said:
Actually, Chechens enjoyed de facto independence from Russia in 1997-1999. During that time they attacked neighbouring Dagestan and started an apartment bombing campaign throughout Russia. This was put to an end by the 2nd Chechen war. However terrible yesterday's bombings are, the overall situation in the Caucasus is much better now than it was 10 years ago.

This is an interesting read (I have only skimmed through the intro). I do not know the quality of Amnesty International as an organizations, only that I found it online.

Taken from the introduction:

AI said:
Stretching back over 15 years Amnesty International has documented a range of grievous
human rights violations carried out in the context of the conflicts. People have become
victims of such human rights violations in the region as enforced disappearance, arbitrary
detention, torture or other ill-treatment, or even killed while in detention. Moreover, there
has been a continuing failure by the Russian authorities to implement effective and
adequate measures to investigate these abuses. Investigations by the Russian authorities
into alleged serious human rights violations by law enforcement and security officers
have been far from prompt, independent and effective. In 2007, a new structure, the
Investigative Committee, was established within the Office of the Prosecutor General, and was charged with responsibility for criminal investigations. However, a review is needed
of the functioning of this Committee to ensure their compliance with international
standards of promptness, thoroughness, independence and impartiality. The failure to
investigate allegations of human rights violations in accordance with such standards is
itself a human rights violation.

Perhaps, others should discontinue the cartoon statements about this incident and look into it with objectivity and seriousness.

Refrences
[1] http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/EUR46/012/2009/en/66cda198-85c0-452c-a2c5-98cac593a990/eur460122009en.pdfl
 
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  • #26
Sorry you feel that way, Cyrus.
Without SF counter-terrorist teams, be it from America, Serbia or otherwise, this would be a sad world to live in.

Respect your opinion, and just mine...
 
  • #27
pallidin said:
Sorry you feel that way, Cyrus.
Without SF counter-terrorist teams, be it from America, Serbia or otherwise, this would be a sad world to live in.

Respect your opinion, and just mine...

Your videos offer nothing of substance to the topic at hand, nor does this post. I fail to see the relevance this provides to a meaningful discussion of the issues in that region. In addition, you did not provide an opinion, you linked a video.

To be clear: Yes, counter terrorist teams are important. No, that does not have to do with this thread.
 
  • #28
My opinion?
The suicide bombings were outright murder on innocents.
 
  • #29
pallidin said:
My opinion?
The suicide bombings were outright murder on innocents.

Yes, it was. That's called a fact. Such statements, while appealing to the emotion, do not get you one step closer to understanding the nature of the problem, or why such an incident occurred in the first place, or how to prevent it in the future. So again, let's have a mature discussion about this, okay?

Side: In case others have not picked up on this by now (and I fully suspect they have not), this is my gripe with the replies in this thread. It has nothing to do with the people in that subway being attacked. I have no idea how others got that impression.
 
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  • #30
Cyrus said:
To be clear: Yes, counter terrorist teams are important. No, that does not have to do with this thread.

You have got to be kidding. This thread has nothing to do with terrorism?
Let's see... radicals kill civilians.
 
  • #31
pallidin said:
You have got to be kidding. This thread has nothing to do with terrorism?
Let's see... radicals kill civilians.

No, I am not kidding. Please knock off the high school level comments, and provide some substance to the discussion of this current event. Otherwise, post your comments at the bottom of those YouTube videos, this isn't the place for them.
 
  • #32
OK, Cyrus, point-blank...

What's your opinion of blowing people up to propagate an ideology with respect to that region?
My opinion is that these perps should be taken down, and I offered the vid's to show that this can be done. That was the only reason for the vid's.

Should you have some other idea on how to resolve this short of a direct military action, please share.
 
  • #33
pallidin said:
OK, Cyrus, point-blank...

What's your opinion of blowing people up to propagate an ideology with respect to that region?
My opinion is that these perps should be taken down, and I offered the vid's to show that this can be done. That was the only reason for the vid's.

Should you have some other idea on how to resolve this short of a direct military action, please share.

How do you feel?

I think you should go read more books, articles, and newspapers. I am under no obligation to furnish you with any solutions to this problem. Please stop pretending to play the role of counter terrorist expert. It looks ridiculous.

But, I do love the cockiness of your post: "these perps should be taken down", sir, yes sir Jack Bauer!
 
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  • #34
pallidin said:
OK, Cyrus, point-blank...

What's your opinion of blowing people up to propagate an ideology with respect to that region?
My opinion is that these perps should be taken down, and I offered the vid's to show that this can be done. That was the only reason for the vid's.

Should you have some other idea on how to resolve this short of a direct military action, please share.

How do you feel?

I don't know the details of this, and would like to be educated. But if the rebels feel this strongly about it, this rebellion is going to manifest itself for generations. Instead of going back in history and figuring out who are the good guys, and who are the bad guys, can't we just make an assumption that they are both better off being separate countries?
 
  • #35
Killing innocent civilians is called Terrorism all over the world. People who believe in law and order agree that terrorists must be destroyed.
 
  • #36
GeorgCantor said:
People who believe in law and order agree that terrorists must be destroyed.

No, they don't actually. The US military knows it cannot kill every single terrorist, so instead they try to remove the environmental stimuli which leads them to terrorism in the first place. You really should watch CSPAN more often when generals give speeches. That's why Bush was trying to win the 'Hearts and Minds' of the Iraqis. Think about that.
 
  • #37
This may be an almost laughable analogy, but would you guys consider the rebels in Star Wars terrorists?
 
  • #38
GeorgCantor said:
Killing innocent civilians is called Terrorism all over the world. People who believe in law and order agree that terrorists must be destroyed.

Yep...
 
  • #39
Cyrus said:
No, they don't actually. The US military knows it cannot kill every single terrorist, so instead they try to remove the environmental stimuli which leads them to terrorism in the first place. You really should watch CSPAN more often when generals give speeches. That's why Bush was trying to win the 'Hearts and Minds' of the Iraqis. Think about that.


How would you EVER remove all the "environemental stimuli which leads them to terrorism"? Sounds like utopia to me. What do you think we should do to those that already killed innocent people, but destroy them in the same manner they spilled innocent blood?
 
  • #40
GeorgCantor said:
How would you EVER remove all the "environemental stimuli which leads them to terrorism"? Sounds like utopia to me. What do you think we should do to those that already killed innocent people, but destroy them in the same manner they spilled innocent blood?

Perhaps, you should see the report I linked. Start there. Considering I was at a talk given by a former Lt. General, and now Counter terrorism expert at the State Department, I'm going to have to disagree with you.
 
  • #41
Cyrus said:
...try to remove the environmental stimuli which leads them to terrorism in the first place.

Their "environmental" stimuli is, in fact, their ideology.
One and the same.
 
  • #42
pallidin said:
Their "environmental" stimuli is, in fact, their ideology.
One and the same.

Jesus Christ, stop talking. Start reading. Seriously.

Better yet, from now on, give me a link to every claimed factual statement you make, because this is getting out of hand.
 
  • #43
Cyrus...

From your posts I assume you are against "innocent killing" with respect to the events posted by the OP. (Note:.. I'm staying on subject)
 
  • #44
Cyrus said:
Perhaps, you should see the report I linked. Start there. Considering I was at a talk given by a former Lt. General, and now Counter terrorism expert at the State Department, I'm going to have to disagree with you.


This Lt.General is entitled to his opinion and you should take it for what it's worth - an opinion.

There is no resolution to terrorism and there will never ever be. The rest is utopia. Given the impossibility to stamp out terrorism, the only way is fight it lawfully.

Do you think we should remove all environmental stimuli for people who become criminals and dismantle police forces? I am not aware of there being such a society.
 
  • #45
GeorgCantor said:
There is no resolution to terrorism and there will never ever be.

But there is! DESTRUCTION.
 
  • #46
calculusrocks said:
I don't know the details of this, and would like to be educated. But if the rebels feel this strongly about it, this rebellion is going to manifest itself for generations. Instead of going back in history and figuring out who are the good guys, and who are the bad guys, can't we just make an assumption that they are both better off being separate countries?

Russia will never let the separation happen. It might take a couple of generations to heal the wounds on both sides. But eventually, the unemployment will go down, the economy will improve, and people in Chechnya will lose their interest in separatism. This kind of scenario already took place in the 19th century. I don't see why it should be different this time.
 
  • #47
Cyrus said:
The US military knows it cannot kill every single terrorist, so instead they try to remove the environmental stimuli which leads them to terrorism in the first place. You really should watch CSPAN more often when generals give speeches. That's why Bush was trying to win the 'Hearts and Minds' of the Iraqis. Think about that.

Russian authorities in Chechnya are doing the same. Aren't they?
 
  • #48
The problem with a suicide bomber is that there isn't anything anybody can do. They are already dead, so they are beyond prosecution and punishment. There is also the problem that you can't prosecute anyone for something which they haven't done, so there really isn't much else you can do than try to create incentives for people to not blow themselves up.

There is a reason why this is called an asymmetric threat.

No conventional methods of warfare, or even police work, are useful strategies when confronting suicide bombers. If you start killing people you *think* perhaps *might* become suicide bombers some day, you are exacerbating the problem. You are also creating another problem for yourself which is that of not respecting your own laws for civil conduct.

All the "tough" boys who are commenting here, demanding retaliation and special forces and whatnot, are morons. Grow up. You cannot beat someone who has decided to kill themselves in action. They are beyond reproach. All you can do is to make them not make that decision to begin with - which makes this a political problem. Trying to be the strong arm of the law is precisely what they want you to do, and a sure way to lose.

An asymmetric threat must be confronted with asymmetric means.
 
  • #49
meopemuk said:
This was not the deadliest terrorist attack in Russia's modern history. 170 people were killed in a Moscow theater in 2002. There were 334 victims of the Beslan school siege in 2004. So, I don't think that this time the response will take some epic proportions.

Moscow theater death toll was due to excess amount of sedative, Fentanyl (a simple Narcan injection or inhalation would've been the antidote), Beslan school is in North Ossetia (which most Russians will agree we do not care much for) - yes many children died, and death toll is high, but that is yet again an operational incompetence by the FSB.

This time the attack is at the heart of Russia, a few miles from Kremlin. This attack is more personal to Russia as a country than any other one combined. It brought fear to the very seat of government, and if you think that will be taken lightly, try again.

As far as I'm concerned there will be civil rights violations, killing of innocent civilians and an escalation of military presence in the south. Even Georgia might get back handed if it gives a lip to Russia this time, international observers or not.
All the "tough" boys who are commenting here, demanding retaliation and special forces and whatnot, are morons. Grow up

Yeah? You think anyone cares about your terminology or analysis on the matter? They will roll tanks into the city center in the next few weeks, bomb a few 'suspected' terrorist holdouts and rape women and children. Then they will do this until they find one of the leaders like Dokka Umarov. There won't be a news coverage.

The problem with a suicide bomber is that there isn't anything anybody can do. They are already dead, so they are beyond prosecution and punishment. There is also the problem that you can't prosecute anyone for something which they haven't done, so there really isn't much else you can do than try to create incentives for people to not blow themselves up.

You can kill their entire family and make sure the next time someone even thinks about becoming a terrorist realizes about the consequences ('Teach your children better, or die' style). You can hunt down whoever assisted the bomber and kill them (Mossad style). You can kill whoever funded them (In a different category of assistance, but nonetheless important as it sprouts the leadership of terrorist organizations not just the operational staff itself). There is always someone who is guilty of something. There is no such thing as an innocent civilian - they are all combatants the second they pick up a weapon, and most of them do. If they are not fighting then they are hiding and abbeting the terrorists.
 
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  • #50
The first explosion was right next to the FSB headquarters if I am not mistaken.
 

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