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News Mujahidin terrorised Fallujah

  1. Nov 16, 2004 #1

    plover

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    http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20041115/REPOSITORY/411150349/1013/NEWS03 [Broken]:
    Photographer Bilal Hussein's experience:
    War crime investigation by Marines over slaying of prisoner (Reuters, ABC) :
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
  2. jcsd
  3. Nov 16, 2004 #2
    Thanks for posting the reality of the situation. While I support the movement against Falluja, praise the speedy seige and effectiveness from a military standpoint, we cannot forget that war is not something to be idolized.
     
  4. Nov 16, 2004 #3
    The marine who shot the Iraqi is an element that forms this micro sense of the situtation. All the micro elements adds up to from the macro sense. This entire invasion of Iraq is the macro sense and without just cause. It is a collective act of murder.
     
  5. Nov 16, 2004 #4

    It is NOT a WAR! it is a wholesale murder of civilians! your so called terrorists are simple Iraqis fighting occupation!
     
  6. Nov 16, 2004 #5
    Phatmonky i gotta hand it to you, you will make a great Whitehouse spokesman.
     
  7. Nov 16, 2004 #6

    kat

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    Gee whiz, thanks...what would I do without the daily dose of hyperbole.

    Mujahidin terrorised Fallujah, residents say


    Proving once again that it's Iraqi's fighting for freedom:

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&ncid=736&e=4&u=/ap/20041114/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_sweeping_fallujah [Broken]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
  8. Nov 16, 2004 #7
    I find this humorous because I am often told things along those lines- however, could you expand on what in my statement made you say this?
     
  9. Nov 16, 2004 #8
    "It is NOT a WAR! it is a wholesale murder of civilians! your so called terrorists are simple Iraqis fighting occupation!"

    What kind of "fighting occupation" is this when people are getting their heads cut off on camera, including UN and non-profit organization volunteers ? Normally when there is a revolution, you need a united front; I don't see any "liberation front" against the "occupier", is it Al Queada ???

    Who and what are they fighting and trying to liberate ? Perhap the school/bridge just recently built or the upcoming election ?
     
  10. Nov 16, 2004 #9
    Atention atention atention... Don't panic.. american forces are destroying the entire city so you can be free... Just DUCK and COVER.....
     
  11. Nov 16, 2004 #10
    If after investigation the conclusions indicate that there were no mitigating factors, and the soldier murdered the insurgent with the requisite malicious mind, then he should be punished as a murderer. Note however, before this event there was a booby trapped insurgent which had killed a US soldier in a similar incident. Note, that the insurgent in question here, in this instant, was faking dead (this was noted in the tape). Note also that the soldier in question (as I understand) had just been shot in the face. Add at least these circumstances before reaching your verdict of guilt please ---
     
  12. Nov 16, 2004 #11

    And what about this:

    Wounded, another Iraqi writhes on the ground next to his gun. The Marines kill him -- then cheer.

    See the video:
    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5365.htm

    and god knows how many more cases like this we didn't see... we are shown barely 10% of the images of the war...
     
  13. Nov 16, 2004 #12
    What about it?
     
  14. Nov 16, 2004 #13
    he shoot a wounded unarmed iraki from the back...
     
  15. Nov 16, 2004 #14
    Read my initial post again. I'm not saying this soldier should be allowed to murder. But than again, maybe you shouldn't reach judgments based solely on a 10 second tape.
     
  16. Nov 16, 2004 #15

    russ_watters

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    Its not hyperbole, kat, its an oxymoron: if they are fighting, they aren't civilians.
     
  17. Nov 16, 2004 #16
    You're gonna have to get up earlier to show me some rhetorical propaganda I haven't seen and already dismantled...

    Two things about your post and the video you show:
    1> 'NEWS YOU WON'T FIND ON CNN' :rofl: The video IS from CNN
    2> The video is clipped and spliced together (not only is it obvious anyways, take a look at the scrolling at the bottom). Try showing unedited footage.

    Come again, thanks.
     
  18. Nov 16, 2004 #17

    russ_watters

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    Staff: Mentor

    That's a really old one too - we've already discussed that video (and the ethics of Rules of Engagement) at length.
     
  19. Nov 16, 2004 #18
    http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/15/marine.probe/index.html

    Now, this is super interesting:
    So, they are booby trapping bodies, he sees a guy playing dead...I would say this case isn't as open and shut as everyone is making it.
    Also, aren't there Geneva rules on playing dead to attack someone?



    EDIT-
    hrrrmmmm....
     
  20. Nov 16, 2004 #19
    Also there is some indication of evidence that the insurgents had retaken that mosque while this wounded fella was there. Bottom line - that video doesn't tell us the entire story. So maybe, some here need to pull the rope down, get back on their horses, and ride on home.
     
  21. Nov 16, 2004 #20
    Bolding mine -

    http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/15/marine.probe/index.html
     
  22. Nov 16, 2004 #21
    I saw the video and noticed an old man lying wounded against the wall next to another wounded Iraqi. It looked at some point as if blood was squirting out of his eyes, anyone seen this?
     
  23. Nov 16, 2004 #22
    Or perhaps the people who are occupying their land?
     
  24. Nov 16, 2004 #23

    plover

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    The story of the Marine shooting the wounded Iraqi is getting fragmented here. I'll try to summarize.
    Friday:
    • Marines secure a mosque and an adjoining building, leaving behind 10 dead and 5 wounded insurgents.
    • The Marines are accompanied by NBC reporter Kevin Sites.
    • The expectation was that the wounded Iraqis would be picked up for treatment. However, this did not happen; the reason for this has not been reported.
    Saturday:
    • There are reports that the mosque has been "reoccupied" by insurgents. Whether US troops were actually attacked by anyone inside the mosque at this time has not been reported.
    • A group of Marines, different from the one who secured the mosque Friday but also accompanied by Kevin Sites, retakes the mosque.
    • It is not reported whether any other insurgents were in the building other than the wounded from Friday.
    • Four of the five Iraqis wounded on Friday were apparently shot again during this operation, and one of those was apparently killed.
    • It is not reported whether the Iraqi apparently killed while resecuring the building is the same one that the Marine shot on the tape.
    • "A Marine approached one of the men in the mosque saying, 'He's [expletive] faking he's dead. He's faking he's [expletive] dead.' "
    • It is not reported why the Marine thought the Iraqi was "faking", however the Marine was apparently unaware that the Iraqi had been among the wounded from Friday ("I didn't know, sir...").
    • According to Kevin Sites, the wounded man "did not appear to be armed or threatening in any way."
    One detail that has not been mentioned is that the Marine responsible for the shooting had been "shot in the face" the day before, but had been returned to duty. Was his judgement impaired?

    Given that the incident took place after the building had been re-secured, the fact that the Marines believed that the building had been "reoccupied by insurgents" seems unlikely to have played a part. I'm not sure what booby trapped corpses could have to do with the situation—shooting someone at point blank range that you think is booby trapped, especially in an enclosed space, strikes me as a good way to get yourself killed.

    There are enough missing details and unanswered questions that the situation is not completely clear cut without bringing in imprecise and/or inaccurate side issues.

    However, even leaving aside the issue of whether the Iraqi was "faking" or just too weak to move, the main question remains: why should someone be summarily shot for "faking" death, if they are not doing anything threatening?

    CNN also notes:
    If incidents such as the one on the tape are occurring, then news reports or no, word will spread among insurgents.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2004
  25. Nov 17, 2004 #24
    There was also another similar incident a few days before. The one where the soldier says 'hes done' or something like that after shooting though a window, unless I am getting confused.
     
  26. Nov 18, 2004 #25
    So.. now after all the possible war crimes have been commited by the US,who is going to the war crime tribunal? or if ever?
     
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