Multiple events and using bayes theorem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of Bayes' theorem to calculate conditional probabilities involving multiple discrete random variables: G, H, J, and L. Participants explore the relationships between these variables and the correct formulation of the theorem in this context.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant attempts to express P(H|J, G, L) using the product of conditional probabilities and P(H), questioning the validity of their approach.
  • Another participant challenges the initial formulation, clarifying that P(J, G, L|H)P(H) does not equal P(H|J, G, L) and provides alternative expressions for the numerator in Bayes' theorem.
  • A later reply indicates that the participant is trying to express P(H|J, G, L) in terms of known distributions, mentioning a conditional independence assumption that P(J|H) = P(J|G, L, H).
  • One participant suggests that additional information is necessary to compute P(H|J, G, L) and encourages considering other known information that might help in the calculation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct application of Bayes' theorem, with no consensus reached on the formulation or the necessary conditions for calculating P(H|J, G, L).

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the independence of variables and the need for additional information to compute certain probabilities accurately.

skyflashings
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I am not sure if I am doing this correctly, so please check my attempt:

I have four discrete random variables: G, H, J, L

Say, I want to find P(H|J, G, L).

Then can I write as P(H|J, G, L) = P(J, G, L|H)*P(H) = P(J|G, L, H)*P(G|L, H)*P(L|H)*P(H)

Are those equivalent? I can't find an example exactly like this one; I just want to make sure that it works this way. Thanks!
 
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skyflashings said:
Then can I write as P(H|J, G, L) = P(J, G, L|H)*P(H)

No. P(J,G,L | H) P(H) is equal to P(H,J,G,L), which is not the same as P(H|J,G,L)
[tex]P(H| J \cap G \cap L) = \frac{ P(H \cap J \cap G \cap L)}{P( J \cap G \cap L)}[/tex]

There are various ways to rewrite the right hand side.

For example, the numerator can be written as:

[tex]P( H \cap J \cap G \cap L) = P(H | J \cap G \cap L) P(J \cap G \cap L)[/tex]
[tex]= P(H| J \cap G \cap L) P(J | G \cap L) P(G \cap L)[/tex]
[tex]= P(H| J \cap G \cap L) P(J | G \cap L) P(G | L) P(L)[/tex]

which is similar to what you had in mind. You could also write it as you did, with P(H) as the last factor.
 
Last edited:
Ok, I see how it unfolds now.

One of the reasons I wanted to get my final form is that I only have a distribution for P(H), P(J|H), P(G|L,H), and P(L|H) and there is a conditional independence assumption that P(J|H)=P(J|G,L,H).

So, I need to find P(H|J, G, L) in terms of those.

If I were to follow your steps to solve for P(H|J, G, L), would it look something like:

P(H|J, G, L) = P(H, J, G, L) / ((P(H|J, G, L)*P(J|G, L)*P(G|L)*P(L))

I'm not sure how to proceed at that point..

Thanks for the help, I hope I can wrap my head around this.
 
I think you need more information to calculate P(H| J, G, L). You need to be able to calculate P(J,G,L) without the condition that the event H is true. If you know the problem has an answer, think about whether there is other known information.
 

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