Need help, are these functions differentiable?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the differentiability of certain functions at a specified point, denoted as c. Participants explore the definitions and conditions for differentiability, particularly in relation to trigonometric functions and limits. The scope includes mathematical reasoning and technical explanations.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation, Mathematical reasoning, Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest using trigonometric identities to analyze differentiability but express uncertainty about which identities to apply.
  • One participant presents a piecewise function and calculates the limit for the derivative at a specific point, concluding that the limit does not converge, raising questions about differentiability.
  • Another participant asserts that a function is not differentiable at point c due to discontinuity, referencing one-sided limits as a basis for this claim.
  • A different function is discussed, which is continuous at c but not differentiable, with a participant providing sequences that demonstrate the non-existence of a limit related to differentiability.
  • One participant mentions that while the derivative of a function may not be continuous, it must satisfy the intermediate value property, indicating a relationship between the limits from either side of a point.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the differentiability of the functions at point c, with some asserting non-differentiability due to discontinuity or limit behavior, while others provide calculations that suggest different outcomes. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the overall differentiability of the functions in question.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential missing assumptions about the functions and their definitions, as well as unresolved mathematical steps in the analysis of limits and continuity.

FallArk
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I want to figure out whether the functions are differentiable at c. I think I should use some of the trig identities, but I'm not sure which ones. Any tips?
 

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FallArk said:
I want to figure out whether the functions are differentiable at c. I think I should use some of the trig identities, but I'm not sure which ones. Any tips?

Hey FallArk! (Smile)

Let's start with the proper definition of the derivative.
That is:
$$f(x)=\begin{cases}\tan x &\text{if } -\frac\pi 2 \le x <\frac \pi 3 \\
x^2 & \text{if } x \ge \frac \pi 3
\end{cases} \quad\Rightarrow\quad
f'(\frac\pi 3) = \lim_{h\to 0} \frac{f(\frac\pi 3+h)-f(\frac\pi 3)}{h}
$$
Now let's look at the lower limit:
$$\lim_{h\to 0^-} \frac{f(\frac\pi 3+h)-f(\frac\pi 3)}{h}
= \lim_{h\to 0^-} \frac{\tan(\frac\pi 3+h)-(\frac\pi 3)^2}{h}
\to \frac{\sqrt 3 - \frac{\pi^2}{9}}{0^-} = -\infty
$$
It's not convergent is it? (Wondering)
 
Hi FallArk,

The function in part (c) is not differentiable at $x = c$, for it is discontinuous at that point. Just check the one-sided limits.

The function in part (f), although continuous at $x = c$, is not differentiable at $x = c$; the limit $\lim\limits_{x\to 0} \dfrac{f(x)}{x}$ does not exist. Indeed, consider the sequences $x_n = \dfrac{2}{(4n+1)\pi}$ and $y_n = \dfrac{2}{(4n-1)\pi}$. Then $x_n, y_n \to 0$, but $$\lim\limits_{n\to \infty} \frac{f(x_n)}{x_n} = 1 \neq -1 = \lim\limits_{n\to \infty} \frac{f(y_n)}{y_n}$$
 
I like Serena said:
Hey FallArk! (Smile)

Let's start with the proper definition of the derivative.
That is:
$$f(x)=\begin{cases}\tan x &\text{if } -\frac\pi 2 \le x <\frac \pi 3 \\
x^2 & \text{if } x \ge \frac \pi 3
\end{cases} \quad\Rightarrow\quad
f'(\frac\pi 3) = \lim_{h\to 0} \frac{f(\frac\pi 3+h)-f(\frac\pi 3)}{h}
$$
Now let's look at the lower limit:
$$\lim_{h\to 0^-} \frac{f(\frac\pi 3+h)-f(\frac\pi 3)}{h}
= \lim_{h\to 0^-} \frac{\tan(\frac\pi 3+h)-(\frac\pi 3)^2}{h}
\to \frac{\sqrt 3 - \frac{\pi^2}{9}}{0^-} = -\infty
$$
It's not convergent is it? (Wondering)
I was so concentrated on getting rid of the h, I did not even see that I can just evalute it. Thanks!

- - - Updated - - -

Euge said:
Hi FallArk,

The function in part (c) is not differentiable at $x = c$, for it is discontinuous at that point. Just check the one-sided limits.

The function in part (f), although continuous at $x = c$, is not differentiable at $x = c$; the limit $\lim\limits_{x\to 0} \dfrac{f(x)}{x}$ does not exist. Indeed, consider the sequences $x_n = \dfrac{2}{(4n+1)\pi}$ and $y_n = \dfrac{2}{(4n-1)\pi}$. Then $x_n, y_n \to 0$, but $$\lim\limits_{n\to \infty} \frac{f(x_n)}{x_n} = 1 \neq -1 = \lim\limits_{n\to \infty} \frac{f(y_n)}{y_n}$$

Thanks! I get it now
 
While the derivative, f', of a differentiable function, f, is not necessarily continuous, it does satisfy the "intermediate value property" (f'(x), for x between a and b, takes on all values between f'(a) and f'(b)). In particular, the two limits, \lim_{x\to a^-} f&#039;(x) and \lim_{x\to a^+} f&#039;(x) must be equal.
 

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