Neutron star mass-radius relation plot

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mass-radius relation plot for neutron stars, focusing on the implications of different equations of state (EOS) and the physical interpretations of the plot's features. Participants explore concepts related to neutron star characteristics, the transition to black holes, and the relationship between mass, radius, and density.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question what occurs at the ends of the EOS lines, particularly regarding the transition to black holes and the implications of low mass and large radius objects.
  • There is a discussion about whether all neutron stars (NSs) have the same radius regardless of mass, with some arguing that this would imply a vertical line in the plot, which is not supported by models.
  • Concerns are raised about the validity of the lower right part of the plot, with questions about the existence of certain objects due to rotation constraints.
  • Some participants propose that a neutron star of the same radius can have different masses, suggesting that higher mass correlates with higher central density.
  • Clarifications are sought regarding the constraints imposed by general relativity and causality on the compactness of neutron stars, as well as the significance of various lines on the plot.
  • There is curiosity about why strange quark model stars appear on the left side of the plot.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views and uncertainties regarding the interpretations of the mass-radius relation plot, the implications of different EOS, and the physical validity of certain regions of the plot. The discussion remains unresolved on several points.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings about the mass of white dwarfs versus their progenitor stars, the role of rotation in neutron star stability, and the specific features of the mass-radius plot that may require further explanation.

silly_sheep
Hi there...

I have a question about the tipical mass-radius relation plot for a neutron star, something that looks like this for different equations of state:
c4Iry.jpg


My question is, what is exactly happening at the ends of the EOS lines? I know that after passing the maximum mass the curve starts to spiral if you would go further, and on the other end we have something with big radius and very few mass? I am not sure I understand the plot. Also, do we expect that all NSs have the same radius? Regardless of their mass? What is the EOS actually representing? Shouldn't then each NS that we measure lie on the EOS line in M-R diagram? Well, hope to et some clarifications :-/
 
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If you try to increase the mass beyond the end of the lines, the object collapses to a black hole (or at least this particular model breaks down).
silly_sheep said:
and on the other end we have something with big radius and very few mass?
If the object is too light, it cannot be a neutron star, and you get a white dwarf - low mass, extremely large radius (on this scale).
silly_sheep said:
Also, do we expect that all NSs have the same radius? Regardless of their mass?
That would correspond to an exactly vertical line, and none of the models has that.
silly_sheep said:
Shouldn't then each NS that we measure lie on the EOS line in M-R diagram?
At least approximately. Mass, temperature and spin should be the only things that differ notably between neutron stars in the universe, and mass should have the largest impact on the size.
 
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If the object is too light, it cannot be a neutron star, and you get a white dwarf - low mass, extremely large radius (on this scale).
The WD comment I don't understand, you do have large radius, but from this plot they should have masses that are very low (and they can have masses that are up to 8 solar masses?) Is it valid to say that the lower right part of the panel is not physically valid since these objects can not exist cause of the rotation constraint?

So, how is it possible that a NS of same radius can have different masses? Would that mean that the central density of the star is higher, if the mass is higher?

Also, could you clarify me some of the constraints on the plot? As much as I know, GR is constraint from general relativity, which means that for the masses that high you would have a black hole. Causality should be limit for compactness of the star? Or the fact that the velocity can not be higher then c? What is P< infinity? The rotation I know that comes from the fact that the NS would be teared apart if its spin frequency would be above some value. Usually there are also these lines of "constant radiation radius? R_inf?

And why do strange quark model stars start from the left side? :P Many questions xD Tnx for you answer!
 
silly_sheep said:
The WD comment I don't understand, you do have large radius, but from this plot they should have masses that are very low
They are the low-mass extension of the mass/radius relationship, yes. The models in the plot don't include white dwarfs, they are not designed to model them.
silly_sheep said:
(and they can have masses that are up to 8 solar masses?)
They cannot. You are probably thinking about the original star mass, not the mass of the stellar remnant.
silly_sheep said:
Is it valid to say that the lower right part of the panel is not physically valid since these objects can not exist cause of the rotation constraint?
The rotation constraints only applies to very fast rotating neutron stars. There are objects to the right of this. Every star for example.
silly_sheep said:
So, how is it possible that a NS of same radius can have different masses? Would that mean that the central density of the star is higher, if the mass is higher?
Sure.

The source of the plot should have explanations of the different features in it.

Models starting from the lower left have a high density even at small overall masses.
 
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