Is There Symmetry in the Signs of Newton's Identities?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Jhenrique
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    identities
AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on the symmetry in Newton's identities, specifically questioning whether certain equations can be altered by changing their signs. The original equations provided are correct, but proposed modifications to the equations are deemed incorrect as they arbitrarily change signs. The relationship between the variables p and h is emphasized, particularly in the context of isolating p. The conclusion is that while the first equation stands, the subsequent variations do not hold true.
Jhenrique
Messages
676
Reaction score
4
Look this relationship:

7a818659d257a5542f5121bd88429784.png


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_identities#Related_identities

If I isolate the variable p, I'll have:

##p_1 = 1h_1##
##p_2 = 2h_2-h_1p_1##
##p_3 = 3h_3-h_2p_1-h_1p_2##

So, my question is: BTW, would be true that:

##p_1 = 1h_1##
##p_2 = 2h_2+h_1p_1##
##p_3 = 3h_3+h_2p_1+h_1p_2##

?

EDIT: I'm asking because with base in other formulas seems that there is some symmetry between the signals...
imagem.png
 
Last edited:
Mathematics news on Phys.org
Jhenrique said:
If I isolate the variable p, I'll have:

##p_1 = 1h_1##
##p_2 = 2h_2-h_1p_1##
##p_3 = 3h_3-h_2p_1-h_1p_2##

So, my question is: BTW, would be true that:

##p_1 = 1h_1##
##p_2 = 2h_2+h_1p_1##
##p_3 = 3h_3+h_2p_1+h_1p_2##
No.
The first equation just above is correct, but the next two aren't. You can' t just change the sign arbitrarily.
If ##p_2 = 2h_2-h_1p_1##, you can replace ##p_1## by ##h_1## to get
##p_2 = 2h_2 - h_1^2##
 
Seemingly by some mathematical coincidence, a hexagon of sides 2,2,7,7, 11, and 11 can be inscribed in a circle of radius 7. The other day I saw a math problem on line, which they said came from a Polish Olympiad, where you compute the length x of the 3rd side which is the same as the radius, so that the sides of length 2,x, and 11 are inscribed on the arc of a semi-circle. The law of cosines applied twice gives the answer for x of exactly 7, but the arithmetic is so complex that the...
Thread 'Video on imaginary numbers and some queries'
Hi, I was watching the following video. I found some points confusing. Could you please help me to understand the gaps? Thanks, in advance! Question 1: Around 4:22, the video says the following. So for those mathematicians, negative numbers didn't exist. You could subtract, that is find the difference between two positive quantities, but you couldn't have a negative answer or negative coefficients. Mathematicians were so averse to negative numbers that there was no single quadratic...
Thread 'Unit Circle Double Angle Derivations'
Here I made a terrible mistake of assuming this to be an equilateral triangle and set 2sinx=1 => x=pi/6. Although this did derive the double angle formulas it also led into a terrible mess trying to find all the combinations of sides. I must have been tired and just assumed 6x=180 and 2sinx=1. By that time, I was so mindset that I nearly scolded a person for even saying 90-x. I wonder if this is a case of biased observation that seeks to dis credit me like Jesus of Nazareth since in reality...

Similar threads

Replies
13
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
3K
Replies
1
Views
3K
Replies
5
Views
3K
Replies
6
Views
4K
Back
Top