Newton's Third Law textbook -- question about the sign of a force

AI Thread Summary
The discussion centers on the interpretation of Newton's third law, specifically the relationship between forces exerted by two objects. The confusion arises from the notation used in textbooks, where forces are sometimes represented as vectors and other times as magnitudes. It is clarified that when forces are treated as vectors, the correct expression is F_AB = -F_BA, indicating equal magnitudes but opposite directions. In contrast, when discussing magnitudes only, the forces may be presented as F_AB = F_BA, which can lead to ambiguity. The conversation emphasizes the importance of understanding whether forces are being represented as vectors or scalars, and how diagrams can indicate the direction of forces. Ultimately, the discussion highlights that in practical applications, the sign of forces can be determined based on the context provided in problems or diagrams.
Mr Davis 97
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Imagine that I am pushing on a wall. Then my textbook says that by Newton's third law, ##F_{AB} = F_{BA}##, where I am B and the wall is A. Isn't this wrong? Shouldn't it be that ##F_{AB} = -F_{BA}##?
 
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Mr Davis 97 said:
Shouldn't it be that ##F_{AB} = -F_{BA}##?
Sure, if they are using ##F## to represent the forces as vectors. Perhaps they were just talking about the magnitudes of the forces, which are equal.
 
Doc Al said:
Sure, if they are using ##F## to represent the forces as vectors. Perhaps they were just talking about the magnitudes of the forces, which are equal.
Ah, I see. I guess it can get kind of ambiguous.
 
Most introductory textbooks use boldface or arrows on top to denote vectors: $$\mathbf{F}_{AB} = -\mathbf{F}_{BA}\\{\vec F}_{AB} = - {\vec F}_{BA}$$ versus unadorned italics for magnitudes (scalars): $$F_{AB} = F_{BA}$$
 
Newton's Third Law: For every force acting, there is an equal and opposite force acting. Equal in magnitude, opposite in direction.
Since the "opposite in direction" is often taken as a given, other descriptions generally concentrate on the magnitude, and so FAB = FBA.
 
Mr Davis 97 said:
Ah, I see. I guess it can get kind of ambiguous.
If there is a diagram showing the opposite arrows, they are often meant to indicate the convention for positive direction of each force individually. So the later math doesn't use vectors in one coordinate system, but factors for the indicated unit vectors. A negative result then indicates that the force is opposite to its arrow in the diagram.
 
The thing is, for a given object (free body diagram) that force only applies once. If you stick with the data you've been given in any question or practical situation, the sign of any force is either given or is calculable. You can give an 'unknown' an arbitrary sign and the calculation will produce the correct sign eventually.
 

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